DrunkenBlog

 Posted by: Movi at January 17, 2006 06:13 PM

I've never personally used MacUpdate, since by the time i got a Mac i only knew of versiontracker, and when i did see MacUpdate i decided it gives nothing more. When i heard about that Jesus-thing the "Freak" lamp turned on. Guess i was right all along - never trust a man who mixes business and religion.

 Posted by: Jesper at January 17, 2006 06:24 PM

Obligatory correction: During the month of January, and not June.

 Posted by: Kurt Moore at January 17, 2006 06:26 PM

Is that a trackback I spy, I thought they were gone as per the post yesterday?

Oh, and you have some errant code on the preview of posts:
MT::App::Comments=HASH(0x828332c) Use of uninitialized value in sprintf at lib/MT/Template/Context.pm line 1187.

 Posted by: Cameron Hayne at January 17, 2006 06:27 PM

I've always preferred MacUpdate just because it is significantly faster than VersionTracker - e.g. more than 4 seconds faster per search when I tried it just now.
And getting to the developer's site is much faster too with MacUpdate - mostly because it links there directly instead of going through some intermediate page.

 Posted by: Twist at January 17, 2006 06:32 PM

I suspect you could probably add politics to your list of things Jesus would like to be left the hell out of. But neither you, nor I, nor he will get our wish to see him left out of every issue he doesn't belong in.

 Posted by: Charlie at January 17, 2006 06:46 PM

ditto Cameron. I haven't used VersionTracker for years because of the torture it puts me through to find the developer's site.

 Posted by: Sketch-Plus at January 17, 2006 06:47 PM

Count me in for preferring MacUpdate's interface to Versiontracker. Versiontracker is bad. No one on Windows uses it. Mac users used VT because it was their only option.

I don't care about the Jesus advertisement, tacky but their right. Doing what they did to SmallDog is crazy. That is bad business, plain and simple. No one will trust advertising with them after that nonsense.

 Posted by: Jeremy Wood at January 17, 2006 06:59 PM

So.

Is there a better alternative?

I agree with previous posters that MacUpdate has a better interface than VersionTracker, but I'm not a big fan of freak lights.

DrunkenUpdate.com?

Okay, maybe a bad name.

 Posted by: Kevin Ballard at January 17, 2006 07:12 PM

I always use MacUpdate because it's much better than VersionTracker, even though I dislike the Jesus thing. I can't believe I forgot to ask about that when I met Joel at MacWorld (yes, DB, the guy handing out the MacUpdate CDs was indeed Joel).

 Posted by: Jesper at January 17, 2006 07:27 PM

I'm personally bothered by the Jesus thing. Had they run a web site about how they are Christians and talked about their religion, then sure. People coming there know what to expect - knock yourselves out.

However, this is a site for handling updates to Mac software.

I don't like having beliefs forced upon me. Maybe this page would have been okay if they had said "Do you think Jesus/God/whatever exists?" and had a poll or something, but the sheer assertiveness in the religious beliefs expressed on the page is enough for them to piss me off.

MacUpdate is technically a good solution and is well-maintained. If it hadn't been, I would have completely walked away from it as an occasional user and as a developer with an app on there.

You just don't do this kind of stuff to your users, backers and customers.

 Posted by: Rob W at January 17, 2006 07:43 PM

SmallDog: Ditto. They have the Mac spirit, and they rock.

 Posted by: Mark Stultz at January 17, 2006 07:54 PM

I stopped visiting these sites all together. VersionTracker used to rock the socks before it went with their beefed up subscription system shortly after Mac OS X came out.

I never was a fan of MacUpdate's website. I hate the serach box being directly above their advertisement, in a color that goes against the rest of their design. It leaves my eyes to believe it is an advert, and I totally ignore it. After about 5 seconds trying to find the search box, I realize what I've done. I also love how there is a 600-pixel height gap between the top of the page, and the first software listing.

 Posted by: ulrik at January 17, 2006 07:55 PM

Hmm, this is a strange story but nothing that freaks me out. I've used and respected macupdate more and more in the latest, mainly because all of what you read above..; so I'm very thankful for letting us all slip into a free year's membership.

 Posted by: Jonathan at January 17, 2006 08:07 PM

I really hate the unnessaracy steps to download and visit developer sites that VT puts you through too.

MacUpdate has gone downhill a bit and after the Jesus move (though it's their right) I didn't care for it. After losing a major advertiser there will be either more ads or less service.

Since that move I've been using Softpedia and kind of like it.

http://mac.softpedia.com/

it's pretty responsive and layout nicely (though a bit bubbly and XP-ish)

 Posted by: Mac-arena the Bored Zo at January 17, 2006 08:25 PM

two corrections:

You may recall that not long ago MacUpdate turned some heads by running a rather bizarre full-page ad you had to click through before you could get to their site involving Jesus, Steve Jobs, and iPods.

I think you mean that the full-page ad involved Jesus, Steve Jobs, and iPods, not the page that you click through to.

… the few times I had to call them about a support issue their people helpful …

+were

excellent read, though.

 Posted by: JC at January 17, 2006 08:42 PM

Just curious...what do you have to gain by repeatedly trying to take MacUpdate down, DB?? It seems like you definitely have some sort of agenda here.

It's kinda sad because MacUpdate has been providing a great service to Mac users for a long time (much longer than you've been providing your "service"). It looks like your sensationalist "journalism" may be having some affect, unfortunately.

Hopefully this isn't a new trend as the small Mac community has been a pretty tight-knit group until recently. It sucks that someone like you has to come around to try to divide it (sorta like the way the US is divided in general is now).

What's also funny is that you come off as some kind of anti-establishment figure, yet you spent a whole week whoring yourself out for Delicious Monster during the expo.

Come clean, bud...

 Posted by: Abhi Beckert at January 17, 2006 08:47 PM

It's sad to see MU go downhill like this, it's still better than VT, but for how long?

Now would be a good time for a new competitor... I wish I had the time to do it myself.

 Posted by: Jesper at January 17, 2006 08:54 PM

JC: I don't think DB is decidedly against MacUpdate or "the establishment", really. It seems likely to me that he thought that Small Dog's name was being abused for PR in MacUpdate's free membership drive, and since it turns out they weren't even done negotiating, I wouldn't say that that's an unfair assessment.

In reference to DM, he specifically did not mention (or link to) DM when he announced where he'd be during MWSF - I think he was just there to spend some time with Wil Shipley, who is after all a personal friend, for all I've heard.

And for what it's worth, I have absolutely no recollection of DB ever referring to his own writing as 'journalism', even during the MXS heydays. It certainly seems to be a label that other people stick to him, not one he tries to claim (or even hint at) for himself.

So I don't think there's a hidden agenda here at all. To be perfectly honest, I just think that you're being paranoid.

 Posted by: Ron Reames at January 17, 2006 09:17 PM

SmallDog has been on the out with a lot of people because of their radical leftist agenda which they shove down people's throats in their newsletters.

I won't deal with them anymore and I know about a dozen others who feel the same.

 Posted by: Heather at January 17, 2006 10:06 PM

I've read a number of the newsletters at Small Dog and they hardly seem to be "radical Leftist". One mentioned the 9/11 commision's report and recommended that folks read it. Also mentioned that it was a good idea to encourage foreign language studies in University to understand what's going on in the world. Thats hardly extremist views - unless you're an ostrich!

 Posted by: mark at January 17, 2006 10:13 PM

Agree that small dog has a leftist agenda but that's there right.
Same for MacUpdate and Jesus - it's their right.
And all of you can choose to use it or not. That's your right.

Just wanted to point out that you only have one side of the story. It's possible that the person you spoke to was not involved in the very latest discussions, what with Christmas and all, she may not have read her latest emails. ;)

 Posted by: bc at January 17, 2006 10:38 PM

I'm an MU user. And I'm sick of seeing Jesus brought into well just about everything in the US right now (He has its place, his followers should take care). And that splash-page thing isn't the most tasteful think I've ever seen. However, it doesn't change anything for me. I'll still use the site, and point others to it. Bottomline is such: it's their site, and if they want to put something up on Christmas Day, it's their site, they're free to do whatever they'd like. If this were an everyday occurrence, I'd seek another site.
It seems they may have ignored that their actions reflect upon all of their advertisers, as well. Without telling the people who pay for their site that they were going to radically change the front page (with anything, let alone something with the potential to being polarizing to its users) they should expect business ramifications, up to and including lost ad revenues and sponsors. That's their choice, and they should be prepared for any consequences. And the thing w/ announcing SmallDog's pullout was just a blunder on MU's part... that's got to sting...

 Posted by: Gorman at January 17, 2006 11:23 PM

MacUpdate has listed my software as being owned by another company and then told me it was my problem when I contacted them to have it changed.

I never submitted anything to them, and I am at a loss for how it even ended up on their site.

 Posted by: Grant at January 17, 2006 11:55 PM

Well, I'm in favor of their 'radical left agenda,' and I haven't even heard what it is, yet. We just need more of them, these days.

But anyways, I'll say that I'm a MU user rather than a VT user. Some of the things they've done recently seem to have been pretty unprofessional, but if VT's 'professionalism' is related to their ad-encrusted link-maze, well, I'll stick with the novice effort, thanks.

 Posted by: seth at January 18, 2006 12:16 AM

I switched to MU about a year ago after finally giving up on VT's awful UI. The site became unbearable to use, even with the paid membership. One thing that continues to drive me nuts is that both sites insist on pushing their own desktop apps to alert me to updates. I don't need any more apps running on my system. I don't want any more apps. Give me a personal RSS feed for just my watch list and I'll pay you for it. I hammered VT with that request for nearly two years before giving up. I mentioned it to Joel when I saw the free membership offer and he immediately returned my email and said he'd asked his developer to work on it. That's smart customer service. As for the Small Dog biz, that's not so smart.

 Posted by: Dan at January 18, 2006 12:55 AM

MU is prettier and snappier, sure. But VT hardly makes it difficult to visit a developer site or download. Old VT, sure. Current VT displays both prominently. I consider MU crippled because it doesn't display user ratings in the search results. This is why I am willing to look the other way when using VT and waiting for pages to load: I can process the results much faster.

 Posted by: Joel Mueller at January 18, 2006 02:03 AM

This is my only reply I'm going to give to this drunkenblog website. Please take note of it carefully. No further information will be given to anyone here because the owner and author of the website obviously is trying to make connections where they are not substantiated or true.

The MacUpdate Christmas message and Small Dog leaving MacUpdate are completly unrelated events. The author of this article is being completely illigitament in his research and thought that phoning one side of this slanted perspective is enough to get information in order to post a story about such ridiculous claims.

I'm not going to go into detail about why Small Dog left MacUpdate, out of respect for Smalldog. I have great respect for Smalldog as a Macintosh business and have purchased over $10,000 in equipment from them myself.

But do know this. The two events were completely unrelated and the author of this article is making claims that are not substantiated by any factual evidence. And out of discouragement that he posted this article, he won't be getting any further details on the matter from MacUpdate.

I'm disappointed that such ill advised data can be warped and placed into an article that attempts to connect recent events that are completely unrelated. I think I can speak for Dawn at Smalldog and say that they certainly wouldn't be giving this drunkenblog guy inside information on business dealing with MacUpdate, and I think I can say that both companies very much respect and appreciate each other.

I'd ask the readers here to very seriously discount what you're reading in this drunk article. Thank you,

-Joel of MacUpdate

 Posted by: eggsnatcher at January 18, 2006 02:06 AM

Joel at MacUpdate:

But do know this. The two events were completely unrelated and the author of this article is making claims that are not substantiated by any factual evidence. And out of discouragement that he posted this article, he won't be getting any further details on the matter from MacUpdate

Am I missing something? drunken batman said the two were not related! Both in the transcript and in this part of the article: "The timeline was coincidental, and while what MacUpdate had posted may not have been accurate on Small Dog's end at the time, it is now."

 Posted by: WWJD? at January 18, 2006 03:45 AM

He'd buy a Mac from Small Dog, apologize for any misunderstanding and get on with his life.

 Posted by: Mat at January 18, 2006 05:21 AM

I think Joel read the first link and assumed what DB was talking about which was obviously a bad idea. Probably need to write a second post now to correct yourself.

 Posted by: Davide Benini at January 18, 2006 05:55 AM

Come on folks, the Jesus ad was crazy. I was raised a Catholic, in Italy, and something like that looks absolutely out of place on a IT website. I am absolutely sure that anything like that in Italy (and this is the Pope's country) would had withdrew ALL the sponsors foundings... this just to put an international perspective on the story.
The Jesus ad might be unrelated to the withdrawal of Small Dog financial support to Mac Upadate, but that ad was a symptom of something weird in their business. To cut this short, I wouldn't buy a car from them , would you?
Apart from that, I much prefer MacUpadate to VT, but you can't blame dbatman for his critique to their Jesus ad.
It is not a matter of creed or denomination. It's a matter of taste. And I wouldn't pay money to be advertised by people with bad taste.
All the best,
Davide

 Posted by: AM at January 18, 2006 08:34 AM

I too got a tingling "wierdo" feeling when I stumbled across the Jesus thing - I was raised a Christian. All I would ask these "Jesus Pushers" - and I seem to be seeing a whole lot more of them in the US these days - is would they step without concern into a store that had "Allah is Great - become a Muslim" or "Shiva Rules - Hindus are better" right across the doorway when they stepped in. I think that in many US small-towns, a Molotov cocktail would be thrown into the window of any such establishment. Try and disguise it as much as we can with our financial, military and political superiority - many of us Americans are as narrow minded as the next religious fundamentalist in a any other part of the world. Our justice system and constitution prevents most from taking the law into their own hands - but I'm pretty sure that there's going to be an amendment to make Christianity the official religion of the US not too far in the future of this nation - then I'm leaving...
I try not to use macupdate now unless I am linked directly to it.
AM

 Posted by: YMMV at January 18, 2006 09:02 AM

"Joel of MacUpdate" is either a detailed and classic fake troll post, or he is delusional. WTF.

As a user of MU, I hope it is a troll.

As a reader of DB, I hope it is real and he responds to it when he wakes up for the entertainment value.

+YMMV+

 Posted by: at January 18, 2006 09:04 AM

Well done, BM! You've single-handled ended Small Dog's sponsorship of MU! You must be proud, you gossiping fuck.

 Posted by: Dawn D'Angelillo at January 18, 2006 11:05 AM

OK...

Joel is completely correct, my dropping Macupdate has nothing to do with the Jesus posting.

The general concept of the conversation by DB and I, though reasonably accurate in tone and generality, was not verbatim.

When I spoke to DB, I was just surprised that Joel would have posted my pulling our advertising on his web site. A bit shocked actually since it felt a bit premature. Joel and I have a long history of negotiation.

My decision was based completely on dollars and cents. I needed to cut my spending and after some thought I chose several sites that I felt that I could cut because I was covered with other similar sites.

Had I known about the Jesus ad, I would have felt better about the cut as it made me feel that we have very different views and perhaps we weren't a good partnership. But please note, running the ad alone would not have made me pull my advertising. Question it perhaps but not pull it.

Joel graciously offered to keep some ads running on his site out of kindness, which I am so thankful for as it was such a nice gesture. I will certainly understand if he decides not to do that.

Readers may or may not know of the challenges facing a computer business. With computer prices dropping, margins shrinking, we are in a position of always generating more business just to keep even. Our projections were off and that means I have to reduce advertising spending. Simple business practice.

The comments posted were great to read. I have a better feeling for how users feel about two similar sites - VersionTracker and MacUpdate. When the time comes and I can add more spending to my budget, I will indeed talk to Joel and find a common ground - before I buy again, I'll want him to know how I stand in respect to religious/political issues being aired on his site as I'm sure he'll want to feel confident about Small Dog's views.

Thanks again to Joel for being kind and for the readers that have supported Small Dog over the years with their purchases and for DB mixing such fabulous drinks!

 Posted by: icedtrip at January 18, 2006 11:05 AM

In a comparison between VT and MacUpdate, MacUpdate wins hands down. VT just blows as far as speed and most anything else is concerned. The only aspect that VT has that I like over MacUpdate is the ability to see and sort by number of downloads. This, along with date, is the way I make a judgement call on popularity. Maybe MacUpdate has this hidden somewhere, but I haven't found it.

Having said all that, I certainly find myself simply using google to find the software I want. Half the time I visit MacUpate or VT I end up going to the developer's site to read a little bit more info on the product anyway and end up dl'ing from the site directly. Bypass the middle man by using google to link me to the developer's site to begin with.

The Jesus ad didn't bother me at all, and I got some flack with some comments I made in the last posting about the situation; but all that aside, I do 100% disagree with the SmallDog handling. That is just bad business practices in my opinion. Mixing buisness and religion is OK to me, but jumping the gun and posting a decision about an advertiser that has yet come to pass is not.

 Posted by: Voz Pequeña at January 18, 2006 11:29 AM

Drunken Batman normally seems to be someone who values his privacy, so I´m surprised that he would stick his nose between MU and its advertiser and then speak publicly about it. The fact that he didn´t give Mr. Mueller a chance to state his side is particularly surprising.

This would me like me deciding I didn´t like something that was said on this website, and then looking around to see what dirt I could dig up that might affect Mr. B___´s livelihood. Very uncool, and certainly bad karma.

 Posted by: Mindflayer at January 18, 2006 11:58 AM

Dawn - nice to see your post addressing Joel's comments.

Joel - I know DB has a way of getting under someone's skin (see MauiX), but you should have read the whole blog entry! It's clear that the two were unrelated entries. Side note - bad, bad business practice. Don't air your deals unless both parties agree. If I pulled a stunt like you did at work, there'd be repercussions in the millions.

I am RCC. I leave my beliefs out of my business dealings. As someone noted, would you have felt comfortable doing business somewhere with blatant views opposed to yours? I know I stopped using a market that had "BUY AMERICAN! FUCK THE JAPS!" sign displayed....

 Posted by: Peter da Silva at January 18, 2006 12:38 PM

I prefer MacUpdate to VersionTracker, VT tries too hard to keep me in their website. I don't care about the Jumping Jesus ad or whether MU or SD are left, right, center, or non-euclidean. But then, I live in Texas, where people can get in trouble for wearing a FreeBSD tee-shirt.

As for MU and SD: it's possible that Joel was simply misunderstanding the folks at Smalldog, and thought they'd made a final decision while Dawn thought they were still talking. It wouldn't be the first time that kind of communication breakdown had happened.

 Posted by: Theodore Lee at January 18, 2006 12:53 PM

I'm disappointed in your DB. I generally like your site and commentary, but in this issue you are just coming off as someone with a grudge aginst MU for their Jesus ad. Let me preface my comments by saying I'm an atheist. Actually, more acurately, I'm an agnostic (I'm going to reserve judgement on the whole matter until I see more information, the ultimate skepticist).

However, MU is a privately help enterprise, and if they want to risk alienating some of their userbase and advertisers by posting a huge Jesus ad on their homepage on Christmas, who the hell (excuse the irony!) am I (or you) for that matter, to judge them. If you don't like it, fine - there's always Versiontracker.

And while I will agree that you had every right to talk to Small Dog about it, since the information was made public, it still comes off as very Michael Moor-ey of you. As Jeff Harrell would say - "Don't be an ass".

 Posted by: PH at January 18, 2006 01:19 PM

Hey DB.

You rock.

Love,

The Jews, Hindus, Muslims, Agnostics, Athiests, & People with Business Ethics.

 Posted by: DuMaurier at January 18, 2006 02:45 PM

Enjoy the massive Karma hit DB.

Here's my paraphrased version of your post:

You didn't see the Jesus ad? Wow! I saw it. It was right there on their site! It was a huge Jesus ad! On their site! Wow! Lots of people saw. It said something about Jesus. I can't believe you didn't see it! I though everyone saw it! Where were you!!! They had Jesus all over their site! Gosh! It was all Jesusy! Do hate them now? If I were you, I'd hate them. Their website was like a huge Jesus bukake. And you didn't see it? Seriously!?! So you hate them now, right? Right!?!

A giant, "Boooooooooooooooooooo!" for you, DrunkenBatman.

 Posted by: Apt-Getty at January 18, 2006 05:15 PM

Their website was like a huge Jesus bukake.

Came late to this one, and am reading through the comments in shock and horror.

1. DuMaurier, that line is offensive but hilarious. :-)

2. What karma hit? I have only been reading for a year and a half, but it is the usual suspects upset when Drunken Batman swats their idol.

3. I would not buy a used car from MacUpdate after this episode. Not after the comment from Joel Mueller. It does not make sense, did he even read the post he commented on? I had no problem with the original advertisement and I want to smack him. I hope he clarifies his position, because the guy with the comic book name should not look like the one paying attention!

4. It appears MU brought all of this upon themselves. They tried to convert people to their religion on their website, and it is fair for others to be offended. People are making jokes, but in all seriousness if I was of a non-Christian faith and MacUpdate listed my software while telling me I was a heathen and to convert to Jesus I would be livid. If they were devil worshipers or Muslims I would be the same. They posted the press release about SmallDogg.

5. I've never heard of Small Dog before this, but when I look to buy a MacBook in a few months will check their prices. Ms D'Angelillo has class and is handling a complex situation well.

6. VersionTracker is bad. Really bad.

7. I cannot see where Drunken Batman says not to use MU.

8. Drunken Batman is clearly putting more effort into this than he needs to. My guess is he was personally offended by what MU did. If it is MU's choice to post their beliefs, it is hypocritical to say DB cannot also or you cannot post your own comments.

I suppose I would like Joel to clarify his position (which makes no sense) and Drunken Batman to clarify why he gives a fuck. Then bury the hatchet because it is funny but who wins now?

 Posted by: at January 18, 2006 06:48 PM

This may be the craziest comment thread I have ever read the entire way through.

Bravo.

 Posted by: eco2geek at January 18, 2006 09:23 PM

Everyone seems to agree about two things: 1) It's not a good idea to mix religion and politics with business, as you're bound to drive away customers; and 2) It's not a good idea to talk about your business relationships publicly before your deals are finalized, or you may end up inadvertently finalizing your deals...to your detriment.

Having grown up in a fundie Christian household, I can understand the "Jesus ad;" Christians really, really want other people to be Christians, too. (Especially on Christmas.) The interesting thing here, to me, is, does the MacUpdate guy care more about sharing his personal beliefs with others than he does about keeping customers?

Which leads to the thing I can't keep my mouth shut about...

Ron Reames said:

SmallDog has been on the out with a lot of people because of their radical leftist agenda which they shove down people's throats in their newsletters.

Then Heather said:

I've read a number of the newsletters at Small Dog and they hardly seem to be "radical Leftist".

These days, if you even hint at being critical of the Bush administration, say, by encouraging people to think for themselves, you run the risk of being labelled a "radical leftist."

 Posted by: Dave at January 19, 2006 07:06 AM

MU don't seem to be doing anything illegal, and everyone's got bills to pay. Why don't you just leave the man alone?

 Posted by: JC at January 19, 2006 02:23 PM

I'm glad that now that the dust is settling on this, DB is the one that comes off looking like the petty, whiny asshat.

I see nothing wrong with pointing out the Jesus thing once, but he's pretty much beating a dead horse now because of some obvious grudge.

It's similar to how he looked when he tried to ignite the BBEdit/haxies feud.

I get the funny feeling that DB's bread may be buttered by the folks at VT. Look closely and you may see their logo tattooed between his DM one and his Unsanity one. Maybe change the domain to MacShill.com, eh? ;)

What's next for you, DB? Publicly strangle a bunch of puppies?

 Posted by: Jeffrey Flowers at January 19, 2006 02:31 PM

I have to admit that I was surprized when I visited MacUpdate on X-Mas but it wasn't anything that really offended me, and I am an athiest. I really don't think that this is a very big deal, overall.

 Posted by: at January 19, 2006 10:24 PM

You know you have arrived when you have trolls. :) So fucking funny.

 Posted by: Jon Allen at January 19, 2006 11:33 PM

You know you have arrived when you have trolls. :) So fucking funny.

Trolls go where the visibility is. This is funnier and fascinating to watch between posts and see it applied from politics to a blog. They aren't trolls but frustrated yanks (It is the same names every time), because they want people to hate Drunken Batman but

- he doesn't care.

- they are frustrated others don't see how awful he is.

 Posted by: Norm at January 20, 2006 02:48 AM

If my belief is to be that DB doesn't believe that the two are connected why is it in the title? Why is the posting concluded with "To wrap back around, my gut says -- as always in technology, politics and business -- Jesus would prefer to be left the hell out of it." if that is the case?

Am I the only one that finds this and the previous posting ironic? After all these two posts contain much pushing of beliefs on religion which a number of people seemed to think was the problem with the Mac Update ad. And yet many comments later, no one seems to have gotten upset about it. I also have no doubt this will come back up any time Mac Update is mentioned from now on, so the fact that it was a click through ad and therefore more "disruptive" than one or two posts on a site that I've come to expect to see tech issues seems doubtful.

As for mixing religious beliefs or political beliefs with business, there is some level of intermingling that is inevitable. My religious beliefs lead me to believe "Thou shall not steal". Do you really want me to keep that belief out of my business practices? (BTW if you say no, there's a good chance I don't want to do business with you to begin with. ;) )And yes at some point there is a certain level of tact that needs to be applied. However if everyone has a right to their opinion, so do I and there are certainly times I feel the need to express it.

Which leads me back to this statement "To wrap back around, my gut says -- as always in technology, politics and business -- Jesus would prefer to be left the hell out of it.". If I believe (as Christians do) that Jesus loved us so much that He died on a cross for me, how can I reconcile that fact with your statement? Are you really saying that you expect a Christian to believe that Jesus only wants to be part of the life I spend at home?

I'm not really sure why I'm asking. I'm not really planning on arguing anymore. This is hardly the place for a debate of beliefs (religious or otherwise).

 Posted by: anonymous at January 20, 2006 09:46 AM

For fucks sake, it was Christmas. The whole point of Christmas is about religion and Jesus hence Christ Mas(s) actually in the name. If thats not your thing stop celebrating the 25th of December. There is nothing wrong with MU putting anything on their website as they owe nothing to you...

 Posted by: drunkenbatman at January 20, 2006 10:32 AM

Before this gets taken to a level no one wants to go to, I feel compelled to mention that while I allow people to leave comments with any name they choose, I can see your IP address, and can match them to previous comments.

 Posted by: Peter da Silva at January 20, 2006 12:06 PM

So, did you get drunkendotted or something?

I went to leave a comment yesterday, and this site was giving me no-response for hours... it wasn't even 404-compliant, it was just plain Not There.

It's just a bleeding ad. I mean, interstitial ads are a pain, but sheesh. Would it have been better if the interstitial ad was for X10, or Network Solutions, or even Cheap Viagra?

Oh, and, VersionTracker still sucks more, but I preferred the old layout of the info pages on Macupdate to the new one.

 Posted by: John Davies at January 20, 2006 02:45 PM

I myself have a "knee-jerk" reaction to religion creeping into places it doesn't belong: be it technology, the Supreme Court, or politics. This is not to say I don't consider myself to be religious; I just get a a sick feeling when religion is used in any other context but personal!

 Posted by: Michel at January 21, 2006 12:31 PM

I was very shocked to see religion add on a software website.

still, I'm tired of people wanting to INVOLVE me in their foreign religion or whatever believings.

religions, spirituality, believings are personnal , private and intimate stuff. not a thing to crush to it with an ads.

and , what ? of course Macupdate owe something to us ! it's a services trying to sell ads and asking subscriptions.

It's not my thing to celebrate 25th december and why suddenly it's macupdate stuff to remind me of ?

was it "www.macchristian.com" ? if it was macchristian.com, I would be hopeful to see some christians advice between some mac news and never will be angry with that because I would be prepared and informed ! but no it was not that.

I'm sick of people telling what we should believe _suddenly_.

And the fact it was an ad is not an excuse, it's WORSE. Really WORSE. and people with faith should be astonished by that.

 Posted by: paulpro at January 22, 2006 04:24 AM

I keep the URL of the developers' download page for all the software I use on a page on my site. This lets me skip VT or MU altogether for most reinstalls or referrals.

However, I won't be comfortable having only one site for downloads. If VT goes down or is inaccessible for some reason, it would be very reassuring to have another site to go to.

 Posted by: paulpro at January 22, 2006 04:58 AM

On a side note, it's nice to be able to access this site again.

 Posted by: LKM at January 23, 2006 03:25 PM

first of all, labelling smalldog "radical leftists" must at the same time be one of the funniest and one of the saddest things I've read this month. second, vt sucks. really. bad. macupdate is a lot nicer, even if its owners are insane. they're pretty much the only game in town, as http://www.macshareware.net/ seems to be dead. so yeah, if anyone is thinking about entering this market, please do. you have my support.