He's just not that into you
Earlier today I checked my email to find some pings about the MacUpdate site having a giant jesus advertisement up on it you had to click through. I assumed they'd been hacked and laughed, but now this evening had a whole slew of others which included screenshot goodness (click image above), or this web archive you can download and double-click...
It's obvious this wasn't a hack, and brought to mind two things:
- Mac users have this knack for picking a goal, then finding a course of action which not only makes them look silly but actually harms whatever cause they were allying their support to. It won't stop the high-5's at the
MUGchurch on Sunday, though, as that's the overriding yet unspoken goal. - Jesus is trapped in the ENCOM computer system, busy fighting the Master Control Program. Where's the dude when you need him?
It takes all kinds to make a world, but sometimes I do wish the world was a little smaller.
Posted by drunkenbatmanDecember 26, 2005, at 02:00 AM
Comments (39)
Posted by: james post at December 26, 2005 02:35 AM
jesus + ipod + light cycle = classic post
loves you man :)
merry christmas
Posted by: Phil at December 26, 2005 02:50 AM
Than thus Jobs spake: Thou shalt put no other yuppie entrepreneurs before me, and yea, did the neXt cubes tremble.
And Woz looked upon all that he had created, and said that it was good.
Posted by: Jonathan Monroe at December 26, 2005 06:02 AM
I don't see what the hubub is over this. If this had been a one-day ad for a Toyota Camry, you might have been annoyed by it, skipped the ad, and made a note about it to someday write an article about corporations sullying your otherwise pristine MacUpdate experience. It would have gone to the bottom of your list of articles to write.
Christianity as an institution needs to bring in new "customers" (or at least keep the ones its got) just like any other. Why shouldn't religious groups advertise? To me it seems perfectly natural that they would.
Posted by: Davide Benini at December 26, 2005 06:12 AM
I was so so so sure it was a hack, and when I realised it wasn't I was just speechless. Thanks for articulating ;-)
Davide
Posted by: Wil at December 26, 2005 06:12 AM
I understand their need to advertise to attract converts, but that doesn't mean that foisting it off on me on Christmas morning is necessary, you know? I mean, it's MacUpdate, a tech site for software releases.
That's not exactly something that ties in well with a message about God's love.
Posted by: Rory at December 26, 2005 07:21 AM
I saw this ad yesterday looking for a cool Xmas screensaver, a bit tacky really, people should keep their religion and work separate IMO (unless their work is religiously based obviously).
Posted by: mikeash at December 26, 2005 07:52 AM
Christianity as an institution needs to bring in new "customers" (or at least keep the ones its got) just like any other. Why shouldn't religious groups advertise?
If that's true, then why is Christianity (with the possible exception of Islam, I'm not sure here) basically the only major religion which feels a need to proselytize?
I'm not trying to start an argument, but it's interesting to think about how you would never see a page like that which tries to convince you of the virtues of Hinduism or Zoroastrianism.
Posted by: Mark P at December 26, 2005 09:54 AM
I think drunkenbatman (and others) are under the mistaken impression the owner of MacUpdate chose to put this up over his site due to his personal beliefs and why it is getting the laughter it is. I believe this is a group who was buying advertising space on multiple websites, and MacUpdate chose to run it. It (IMHO) was still tacky, but there is a difference.
Posted by: eff at December 26, 2005 10:04 AM
I have no problem with people explaining, defending or even (to a certain extent) promoting their religious beliefs as part of a dialogue between two (or more) consenting parties. That being said though:
- Thou shalt not force your religion upon others.
- Thou shalt not mix your religion with your craft.
Posted by: Justin Williams at December 26, 2005 10:32 AM
After seeing that yesterday morning when I woke up, and realizing that the ads were pushing through MacUpdate's ad server I came to a realization: even Macintosh software update Web sites aren't protected from the commercialization of Christmas. We are all doomed.[/sarcasm]
Posted by: Ben at December 26, 2005 11:49 AM
The impression this leaves is of idiocy, not a "bad taste in my mouth".
The only people that would think that advertisement would actually lead anyone to consider whether Jesus was the savior and the son of God is someone who has already converted.
Raise your hand if this advertisement made you seriously consider Jesus and the resurection. Hmm. Yeah. Me neither. Idiots.
Posted by: engrish at December 26, 2005 01:56 PM
I think drunkenbatman (and others) are under the mistaken impression the owner of MacUpdate chose to put this up over his site due to his personal beliefs and why it is getting the laughter it is. I believe this is a group who was buying advertising space on multiple websites, and MacUpdate chose to run it.
I don't think so, look at the email address at the bottom of the page.
You have things to say that we want to hear! Email us at: realGod_AT_macupdate.com with your questions and perspectives.
Posted by: icedtrip at December 26, 2005 03:06 PM
I think a lot of people are taking this way out of proportion. It's an ad like any other. This is not "forcing" a religion upon you more than an ad about Bose Speakers is "forcing" their brand upon you. Just like the Bose ad, this one is meant to entice, not force. You are still given a choice to being brought in by it or passing it up. People need to get over their anti-religion attitude (please don't take this as a bash on you db, this is aimed at the commenters).
Is Cristianity the only one doing this? Hell no. Yes, it is the most prevalent in this country, but we do see others. Hasn't anyone ever heard of "The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day saints"? I see commercials advertising Mormanism all the time. Go to another country, and you may see Hinduism ads, etc.
As for mixing work with religion, why not? This is not to say that I should try to convert all of my employees to my beliefs, but having a Bible on my desk shoudn't be a problem (maybe as a little "ad", maybe for personal reasons, maybe as a historical book, or whatever purpose I have). Likewise, if I hang a cross on my office wall, get over it.
Yes, I am a Christian, but that is not why I have written what I have. It really just irritates me that this is "bad" because it is a religous "ad", and a Christian one at that. Like the Camry example above, if it had been an ad for a product or service, you would have moved on, but since its about faith, we need to make sure everyone knows that this is wrong. Do I find macupdate advertising Christ funny, sure. It's an amusing concept that had me laugh, simply because it is a tech site, but I also don't take offense to the bumpernuts that are always advertised on blogshares, rather I simply find it funny. Laugh, move on, and stop the anti-christian, anti-religion complaining.
Posted by: sundoggy at December 26, 2005 03:06 PM
hmm. this gets worriesome to me sometimes (esp the last posted observation). DB has on a few occassions alluded to weird things about the macupdate guy, and i have some other business with one of his other ventures. DB, what's the scoop with this guy?
Posted by: mikeash at December 26, 2005 03:22 PM
Is Cristianity the only one doing this? Hell no. Yes, it is the most prevalent in this country, but we do see others. Hasn't anyone ever heard of "The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day saints"? I see commercials advertising Mormanism all the time.
Um, Mormonism is a kind of Christianity. "Christ" is even in the name!
Go to another country, and you may see Hinduism ads, etc.
If anybody has actual examples of widespread proselytism by non-Christian religions, I would love to see them. I've never even so much as heard of any (unless I heard and then forgot, of course), and the quote above sounds like it's based more on expectations than anything else.
Posted by: at December 26, 2005 03:41 PM
Um, Mormonism is a kind of Christianity. "Christ" is even in the name!The key word you used is "kind." Sure people can interpret Mormons as kind of Christians, but if you look at it, you would have to say they aren't. Mormons do believe that Christ existed, but only as a prophet, not the Son of God. Christians get their name from "Christ Like." The term Christian was used to mock people by saying they were "little Christs." Mormons I don't believe would want to be considered as Christ followers even though they do believe that Christ was a saint.
If anybody has actual examples of widespread proselytism by non-Christian religions, I would love to see them.I can't show you examples, but please note that I never mentioned other religious proselytism being widespread. I admit that Christian religions are the most widespread, but I have lived in several latin countries and seen posters, flyers, etc for Hinduism, Budhism, etc in predominantly Roman Catholic areas.
Posted by: icedtrip at December 26, 2005 04:17 PM
I stand to correct myself in one area, as I decided to research one comment I made a little too quickly. As it turns out, Mormons do consider themselves Christians and they do beleive that Jesus Christ is the Son of God. The difference I was confused with was that Mormons believe that the Trinity are three seperate entities rather than one in the same. I apologize on this area and offer this as me taking back the one comment.
Posted by: schenkle at December 26, 2005 05:03 PM
Yes, I am a Christian, but that is not why I have written what I have. It really just irritates me that this is "bad" because it is a religous "ad", and a Christian one at that. Like
The ad is also laughably bad and tacky.
Posted by: Becky at December 26, 2005 10:10 PM
I just thought it was humorous. :)
Posted by: Pres-Gas at December 26, 2005 10:24 PM
I noticed your link to MacUpdate has a tad bit of extra code in the link. Are we trying to send a message to the logs and ergo, the owner? I may have to hit that link a couple of extra times...it is certainly taking advantage of his users and a low brow way to do it too.
Ahhh, I spent my holiday at "Osama's homobortion pot and commie jizporium", just like Jon Stewart wanted me to.
Posted by: Pres-Gas at December 26, 2005 10:25 PM
Oops, need to update the profile
Posted by: Pascale Soleil at December 26, 2005 11:48 PM
"Today, on celebrated Christmas, check out this cool sites."
Doesn't actually sound like a native speaker of English. And the doubled email and site addresses at the bottom of the screenshot are odd too.
Are you SURE this wasn't a hack?
Even if it wasn't, I'm inclined to give people a once-a-year pass to wear their religion on their sleeves. What strikes some people as silly or annoying, may actually be near and dear to someone else's heart. God knows our enthusiasms generally tend to make us look ridiculous.
Posted by: Mike at December 27, 2005 12:24 AM
Everyone has their choice of what to do. I would not force my religion on anyone. I would not put a law into place stating you have to believe what I do. And for the record, no religion is a religious belief that can be forced on others.
On the flip side there are times when I will share my beliefs, religious or otherwise, just as everyone who has commented has also done.
MacUpdate is a site owned by people. How and when does putting up an "ad" become forcing a religion or even a belief on you, rather than showing where their beliefs lie (if that was their aim)?
DB for the last little while has had an avatar of a Jesus figurine in IM. (Interestingly enough it's now gone). Or purposely lowercasing "Jesus", "God", or "Buddha". How is that any different when it comes to pushing a religious belief?
Posted by: cmholm at December 27, 2005 02:21 AM
If that's true, then why is Christianity (with the possible exception of Islam, I'm not sure here) basically the only major religion which feels a need to proselytize?
You can remove "possible" from the statement regarding Islam. Not only is spreading the good word a duty, but well funded adherents of the (Saudi-based) Wahhabi school of thought have been working very actively to move Moslems over from other tendencies within the faith.
Posted by: hawaiiano at December 27, 2005 05:22 AM
In one sense I see what you're saying, db. And I, too, find it peculiar if you had to click-through an advertisement for something/someone on a site that normally doesn't bear one. On the other hand, I find it quite reasonable and would even say go for it, to anyone who cares to convince, provoke, or dare I say convert others to their way of thinking. At the very least so I can try to understand what you're thinking about and why.
Religion, philosophy, economics, diet, relationships, even Mac use--we write about, talk about, try to convince others about, tell others where they're wrong/right about, tell ourselves where we're right/wrong about... that's life and I'm open to it.
Traveling (mainly studying) abroad as much as I have, I've encountered lots of individuals with beliefs different, similar, and sometimes hostile to my own including: strains of animism plus Buddhism (on the part of many of my Japanese relatives); Shinto-Buddhism at the hongwaji where I learned judo; animist-Catholicism in Paraguay; liberal Catholicism in Argentina; Judaism from several Jewish orthodox friends; the American form of English Anglicanism from a quiet Episcopal minister; German Baptist practice from a man I thought was Amish; and closer to home, Hindu from a group of Mac users in Kauai; new age/yoga from meeting Diana Fairechild (and she signed her book for me); free enterprise from my days as a HOBY ambassador; Mormonism from a very nice family at BYUH...
Most of them tried to impress on me their "way of things" such as their belief in God or gods, either blatantly or not-so much, and, I think, whether they realized it or not. So, as best as I could--no doubt the way I was raised, surrounded by extended family who were mainly Buddhist on my dad's side and Catholic or Lutheran on my mom's side--to give everyone equal time and thought, whether you agree or not, letting that inform my own beliefs. Because ultimately, no one else but you makes up your own mind whether to choose one way or the other.
Freedom of religion, expression, and speech about everything under the sun all poured in together does make one strange brew, but one--no matter how diverse or strange--one that I strongly believe in.
The new year's coming up and warm wishes to you, db.
hauoli maka hiki hou
Posted by: Uli Kusterer at December 27, 2005 06:55 AM
I personally am more annoyed by the fact it's an ad you have to click past than by what's actually in it. Yes, it's a silly ad, but so were those about ringtones and dancing frogs... it's the essence of advertising that it's so brutally simplified that even the coolest stuff comes over as crap, and advertisers' insistence to force their ads down our throats is much worse than almost anything an ad can legally contain.
So, I don't get it why you're making such a fuss about it being an ad for a religion. When people are allowed to advertise for plastic surgery and other purely individual and cosmetic things, I don't see why someone who is talking about something that's really important to them shouldn't.
As the saying goes: You don't believe in free speech if you don't believe people are free to speak about what you don't agree with.
Disclaimer: I'm a Christian as well (though probably of a different denomination than the MacUpdate advertisers).
Posted by: Something for a name at December 27, 2005 08:32 AM
This just serves as a little reminder of what so-called "Christianity" has become. Christendom is nothing but a business.
Jesus was quite definately against mixing religion and business.
Posted by: hawaiiano at December 27, 2005 03:33 PM
To Something for a name,
Call me a fool, so that's what these religious are all about! I stand corrected definitely. Most definitely.
Posted by: mikeash at December 27, 2005 03:50 PM
As the saying goes: You don't believe in free speech if you don't believe people are free to speak about what you don't agree with.
There are different degrees of "free". The "free" in "free speech" means that you won't have legal consequences. It does not mean that I won't complain as loudly as I like if you say or post something I don't appreciate.
Posted by: mindflayer at December 28, 2005 04:34 AM
Jesus was quite definately against mixing religion and business.
Matthew 21:12-13
And Jesus went into the temple of God, and cast out all them that sold and bought in the temple, and overthrew the tables of the moneychangers, and the seats of them that sold doves,
And said unto them, It is written, My house shall be called the house of prayer; but ye have made it a den of thieves.
Not so sure the statement is that Jesus was against mixing biz and faith.... But in any case, I don't like "The REAL Jesus" ads.
Posted by: matthew21verse at December 28, 2005 08:54 AM
That Matthew verse is being misrepresented. It doesn't mean, "don't mix business with belief." It means that Jesus was upset that the people were trying to use the Temple, a place considered holy at the time, as an avenue to make money. Jesus said the most important commandment is to Love the Lord your God with all your heart, soul, mind, strength, and second and just as important is to Love your neighbor as yourself. He said use your ALL would encompass everything you have -- your business included.
Also, it wasn't a paid advertisement. That much is obvious. It was used to track click-throughs to see response if people didn't write in. So MacUpdate wasn't making money on it.
Lastly, it wasn't done in a pushy manner, nor was it inhibiting users from bypassing it and going to the main MacUpdate front page. It wasn't done to "convert people" to love Jesus (as if you can even do that). It was done to celebrate on a day of celebration, and offer a topic for people to think about.
Here's another good forum with some good, logical points on it:
http://macthemesforums.net/viewtopic.php?t=2667
(aren't the people that say they respect other people's right to have their own beliefs but then start YELLING at the MacUpdate folk for allowing this splash screen of celebration to appear at all. :) )
Posted by: Mindflayer at December 29, 2005 04:07 AM
matthew21verse: That was my point exactly. Note I said, "Not so sure the statement is that Jesus was against mixing biz and faith".
First step of any faith is an open mind, and an analytical patience.
Posted by: Ben Hamilton at December 29, 2005 03:57 PM
I emailed them and here is my email.
http://69.232.208.156/~gmacster/adam/text.txt
Gmail * William Hamilton *
------------------------------------------------------------------------
*Thank you so much*
13 messages
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* William (Ben) Hamilton * * Sun, Dec 25, 2005 at
2:48 PM *
To: realGod@macupdate.com
Finally A good reason to switch to versiontracker.
Thanks,
Ben
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* realGod@macupdate.com * * Mon, Dec 26, 2005
at 2:49 PM *
To: "William (Ben) Hamilton"
Ben-
Do you really think versiontracker can meet your mac needs better?
I do not represent MacUpdate, but i know that they care about serving
you. They do care about their users. There will be some changes to the
website soon that will benefit you as a MacUpdate user. They are here
for the Mac community. I hope you'll continue to be a part of it.
out to love,
allie :)
[Quoted text hidden]
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* William (Ben) Hamilton * * Mon, Dec 26, 2005 at
4:11 PM *
To: realGod@macupdate.com
I used mac update every day but now I don't want to cause of that jesus
bullshit.
[Quoted text hidden]
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* realGod@macupdate.com * * Tue, Dec 27, 2005
at 12:36 PM *
To: "William (Ben) Hamilton"
Ben-
interesting that you would let your personal views hold you back from
something like a mac site that benefits you. why do you think this
bothered you so much?
[Quoted text hidden]
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* William (Ben) Hamilton * * Tue, Dec 27, 2005 at
3:41 PM *
To: realGod@macupdate.com
It bothers me because I don't see why a wonderful mac file site can't
just stick to what they do best, but must pull some random ass prank
that is not necessary. The reason I call this a prank is because if you
guys were actually serious you wouldn't be fucking comparing Jesus to
Steve Jobs! I myself am not religious but if I was that
would deeply offend me. Also I can't see why mac update feels the need
to link to leaked betas even when they know they are not available yet
(google earth).
I am not the only person who feels this way:
http://digg.com/apple/MacUpdate_says_Merry_Cristmas
http://www.macliberals.com/wordpress/index.php
http://forums.macnn.com/showthread.php?t=279610
http://www.drunkenblog.com/drunkenblog-archives/000735.html
Jesus loves you, but hates mac update.
[Quoted text hidden]
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* realGod@macupdate.com * * Tue, Dec 27, 2005
at 8:04 PM *
To: "William (Ben) Hamilton"
Ben-
thanks for writing.
we were not comparing Jesus to Steve Jobs. That part was sarcastic.
I have read the forums, thank you for sending them on though. Lots of
interesting comments that i truly appreciated. helps me to understand
people better, which i'm always trying to do--
"Jesus loves you, but hates mac update."
that's a strange comment. not sure that was necessary to say.
we are serious about Jesus. not in a religious, we follow the rules
because we have to sort of way. serious in the fact that we care about
who He is and what he has said through his Word. We try to learn from
him and from others. we want to know him more-- because he offers this
beautiful thing called life that brings so much joy...
allie
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* William (Ben) Hamilton * * Tue, Dec 27, 2005 at
8:05 PM *
To: realGod@macupdate.com
Sorry... that was sarcasm...
[Quoted text hidden]
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* William (Ben) Hamilton * * Tue, Dec 27, 2005 at
8:07 PM *
To: realGod@macupdate.com
I think having that thing about steve jobs was insulting to anyone
who TRULY believes in him.
[Quoted text hidden]
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* realGod@macupdate.com * * Tue, Dec 27, 2005
at 8:19 PM *
To: "William (Ben) Hamilton"
i'd like to hear more about why that would be insulting to Christians.
No one expressed this to me yet, so it is interesting and i respect your
opinion.
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* William (Ben) Hamilton * * Tue, Dec 27, 2005 at
8:26 PM *
To: realGod@macupdate.com
If you cared so much about educating people about jesus I would think
you wouldn't want to make it into a joke. When I looked at that
first picture my first impression was that it was a joke. The second
was that the site was hacked. I you guys actually wanted to make an
impression you shouldn't do something as irresponsible as that. Yes
whoever was in charge of that was an irresponsible christian. It
insulted even me, a sixteen year old agnostic who smokes pot once a
month.
[Quoted text hidden]
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* realGod@macupdate.com * * Tue, Dec 27, 2005
at 8:43 PM *
To: "William (Ben) Hamilton"
Ben-
what part of it insulted? specifically what ideas offended you?
it seems like this is something you care about, enough to write a few
times. so share more- what bothers you about this?
i did not hope to misrepresent jesus. he is my King. I do not want to
shame him. i do want people to know about him.
allie
[Quoted text hidden]
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* William (Ben) Hamilton * * Tue, Dec 27, 2005 at
8:44 PM *
To: realGod@macupdate.com
That thing about Steve Jobs seemed really immature.
[Quoted text hidden]
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* William (Ben) Hamilton * * Tue, Dec 27, 2005 at
8:46 PM *
To: realGod@macupdate.com
It would Have been better if it had not been so hard to get past the
first page. Maybe this was version 1.0 of your atheist filter because
unless you read the entire thing down to the bottom you couldn't get
past the page.
[Quoted text hidden]
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Posted by: Doug at January 2, 2006 04:00 PM
Interesting email thread. Allie sounds more like Eliza, anyway.... I agree tho, the in-your-face religious promotional ad on a tech web site was tacky; and the tackiness of the ad content was tacky too. Tacky-squared. Not good for MU. Religion is personal. Using religion in your business model will always alienate a portion of your customers (good for churches, but not good for businesses).
Posted by: Scott at January 3, 2006 09:09 AM
I emailed the poster of the ad, telling him that I thought it was inappropriate for a Mac software update site. His response was that I was anti-Christian and needed to learn about Jesus. I have no problem with Christianity or any other religion. I have a problem with an ad on a software site that pushes one particular religion, especially with the email address "realGod". This seems to be denigrating all other religions as being "false". A truly religious, spiritual person would never do that.
Posted by: HolyRomanUmpire at January 3, 2006 11:48 AM
Is it just me, or is that graphic from Super Punch Out for the SNES?
Posted by: Eric at January 3, 2006 11:25 PM
You know, I find the hugely negative reaction to this funny. If someone owns a business and on Christmas or any other day wants to shut down for religious reasons - that's their perspective and perogative. If they want to use their business website for one day out of the year to express their opinion, that's their perogative too. What's the big deal? If you don't like it, don't read it. Their site, their business. How much do you pay to use their site? If too many people don't like it, and actually stop using the site, it'll show in ad revenue.
db has every right to not like the ad and he was relatively nice in what he said, but the rabid response in the comments is just dumb, frankly.
Posted by: matt at January 4, 2006 05:28 PM
My first assumption, too, when I saw the ad was that MacUpdate was hacked. Slowly it dawned on me that it was instead an incredibly tacky attempt at prosthelysation.
I laughed, and shrugged it off. I'm not christian, sure, but I'll continue to use Macupdate because they suck less than Versiontracker.
On a side note, it seems that Macupdate has lost Small Dog as an advertizer: http://www.macupdate.com/pr/pr02-jan-2006.php Look at the quote underneath the screenshot.
Any idea if these two items are related?
I missed this ad, and I'm rather glad I did…I have nothing against other people's religious beliefs…until they try to sell me on them.
If it's a person-to-person thing, then I don't mind too badly since I can reply with my reasons and start a dialog, which can be interesting.
Trying to convert with a advertisement like this…just leaves a bad taste in my mouth. I'll be a lot less likely to donate to MacUpdate now, and will also be less likely to refer people there.
It doesn't matter to me that it's gone now…They did it, and that's an abuse of the site to advance personal beliefs.
Hope that wasn't too incoherent, and no offense intended to your career/clients, DB.