Apple EOL'ing the wired mouse
I don't normally post rumors and tips, but lately they're starting to freak me out a little. A little while earlier, someone who will remain nameless passed on:
- The Apple wired mouse & keyboard combo was being EOL'd, to be replaced by a Mighty Mouse and keyboard combo.
- The build to order options of the Mac Mini were changing, no more wired mouse and keyboard, just the Mighty Mouse & keyboard and the Wireless Keyboard & Mouse combo.
I gave him my usual spiel, where I said I'd try to look into it but if I couldn't get any similar rumblings probably wouldn't run with it. I get all sorts of tips and rumbles, and lot of times they:
- Are accurate, but things change between what the person heard and what actually gets decided.
- Are conjecture based on something loosely heard somewhere else and the person wants it to be true.
- Are someone repeating someone else who wanted to be seen as In the Know™.
- Are wildly inaccurate, and is just Sircasua trying to mess with me.
Rarely are they really accurate if I haven't confirmed rumblings, but in this case a few minutes later while poking around in the Apple Store, the store changed. Looks real enough to me, and while you can't yet BTO the Mighty Mouse keyboard combo with any of their other Macs in the store, it would appear we're one step closer to Apple shipping a multi-button mouse by default.
Posted by drunkenbatmanAugust 23, 2005, at 12:30 PM
Comments (19)
Posted by: Sharth at August 23, 2005 01:07 PM
It's stuff like this that is making me like apple less and less. I imagine that I'll always like their laptops (i've been using an iBook G4 for a bit longer than a year) but their direction just makes me worry.
I've heard nothing good about the mighty mouse, and I'd have much rathered that they fix the right click problems before they started to bundle it.
The other big problem I've had with apple lately is just the quality control. From what I've read here, and just various little things in Panther that bug me, it worries me.
I would've loved to just see a release without any bugs (i know thats impossible) rather than an intel switch... But we all can't get what we want.
Posted by: Sharth at August 23, 2005 01:08 PM
and I'm not too sure how that relates to anything, but whatever. It's just me agreeing with mostly everything that our local batman has been saying with my little bit of vision in there.
Posted by: Zachery Bir at August 23, 2005 01:36 PM
I've been using the Mighty Mouse for three weeks now, and honestly, I never encountered the right click "bug" people gripe about. In fact, in order to reproduce it, I had to consciously leave my index finger on the mouse. Somehow, I've been trained not to leave my fingers on the mouse. *shrug* In fact, just now I watched myself mouse around naturally. I guide the mouse with my thumb, middle and ring finger, and leave my index finger off the mouse.
Posted by: Marcus S. Zarra at August 23, 2005 02:01 PM
Here is another vote for the mighty mouse. I have been using it with my powerbook for about a week now and like it so much that I have started using it on my office machine as well. I have also never encountered the right click issue that others have reported.
Of note, I am used to a one button mouse with my powerbook having used Apple' BT mouse for over a year. Therefore the right click is a bonus for me as I bought it for the scroll button.
Posted by: Anthony at August 23, 2005 02:10 PM
Whatever quality control issues Apple is having, the mouse won't affect them either way. The MM is a better default because the scroll ball is intuitive in a way that a second button isn't, and you're not forced to use a second button.
They wouldn't do it for the mini unless they were prepared to do it for the other desktops and the wireless mice.
Posted by: Rosyna at August 23, 2005 02:57 PM
Well, I do think that apple would completely toss the wired mouse and replace it with the mighty mouse. It makes perfect sense. Especially since to novice users, it will just be a one button mouse by default. And for those that complain endlessly on the internet and have completely lost touch of what it feels like to be a novice user, they can set it to be a two button mouse.
Also, db, why are you so hard on the other internet whore? I mean, can't two internet whores talk to each other without constant insults...?
Posted by: Paul Turnbull at August 23, 2005 03:33 PM
I got back from vacation to find a Mightly Mouse on my desk. I haven't had any issues with it other than I day of adjustment to a different shape than I'm used to.
On the right click I think most people reflexively lift their index finger when they right click. I've tried to keep my index finger on the mouse while I right click and it's next to impossible for me. In fact even when I pull it off I can't stop the finger from quivering as it tries to lift up.
Now the side buttons, on the other hand, are next to useless for me. I have to shift my grip awkwardly on the mouse to activate them. I don't think I'll be using them that much.
Posted by: Martey at August 23, 2005 04:02 PM
I wonder if this means that Apple laptops will soon ship with a multi-button touchpad as default.
Posted by: Mindflayer at August 23, 2005 04:31 PM
Posted by: Martey at August 23, 2005 04:02 PMI wonder if this means that Apple laptops will soon ship with a multi-button touchpad as default.
By Thrall, that would be nice. That, and dual core. :)
Posted by: Zaxxon at August 23, 2005 04:59 PM
The "you have to lift your index finger to right click" is not a bug, it's a feature! :)
You see, on the current "no button" optical mouse, I'm used to click with three fingers at the same time, the index being at left and two other fingers on the right. I love it like that, it's much less stressful on the wrist to distribute the effort on three fingers. If you put the weight on only one finger, the natural hand behavior for most is having the other fingers lift.
So Apple won't fix this, because it's the intended behavior. For the normal click, you can use 2 or 3 fingers, while for the occasional right-click you (may) have to lift your index from the left part.
Many Windows users are affraid to use contextual menus, yet they are forced to keep their finger on top of the button they are affraid to use. With the MM, they don't have to worry about clicking on both sides at the same time for the main click, yet they can use the occasional contextual menus by lifting their finger of the left part, so it's the only time they have to worry about not clicking on something, instead of all day long.
It's not impossible that after a month or two of use, your brain learns how to "communicate" with the top shell sensors, and that you don't even have to really lift your finger to perform a right click. That would make it the first mass produced mind controlled computer input device :)
Posted by: Brad at August 23, 2005 07:57 PM
Another vote for the Mighty Mouse. I've been using it for about a week now and haven't consciously thought about how I'm clicking. The only issue I've noticed is occasionally gripping the sides too much and activating Expose, which reminds me that using Expose more would be helpful. An added bonus is the middle mouse button which I use quite a bit in Terminal. That you have to set in preferences.
Posted by: cabbey at August 23, 2005 09:14 PM
Posted by: Zaxxon at August 23, 2005 04:59 PM ... For the normal click, you can use 2 or 3 fingers, while for the occasional right-click you (may) have to lift your index from the left part.
Occasional? End of last week, when the complaints about this came up, I did a little experiment from lunch untill I went home (about 5.5 hours) my click counts were approximately:
left: 850
center: 150
right: 575
about 1/3 of the time was on a mac, the remainder on a unix machine. (that's where all the middle clicks came from.) So in my little experiment about 2/3s of clicks are right clicks. That is hardly what I would call "occasional". So what drove all those right clicks... well on the mac I have an (ancient) powerbook with an attached external screen. The LCD is the primary display, and contains the menu, but the external display is newer/clearer/easier on the eyes so that's where my main high use applications spend the day... a long desktop hike away from their menu bars. That makes a lot of the day a process of: left click to select, right click to get menu of options, left or right click to select an item. (or more commonly, down-right-button to get menu, select, up-right-button to fire). quite often I'll do two or three actions to an item before I move on to another item, but a lot of times the last action to one item, automatically focuses on the next item. Now admitedly I do also use aps that don't really have much use for the context menus (Safari for example is a nearly left only process) and I think that's what brought the balance out as "lopsided" as it did. I was actually expecting closer to 85% of clicks to be right. The preceeding scenario is just as legit on unix. It was this mental exercise that led me to the conclusion that if what they're saying about the right click on the mighty mouse is true... well then it's not for me. OMMV.
Many Windows users are affraid to use contextual menus,
heh, that's not limited to windows users... my mum is on OS/X and she is the same way... "Oh, I don't want to go in there, I may break something." Mind you I think this is a hold over from her windows days.
Posted by: Zaxxon at August 23, 2005 10:38 PM
Yeah ok remove the word occasional then, it was not really useful in my post :)
Even with frequent right clicks I don't mind the way the MM mouse works and actually love it, for the reasons I mentioned, and in your case you can adapt faster since you do more right clicking :)
I will assume that you are in the category of people that wouldn't be satisfied by any mice Apple could release, because it will always be below the "extreme pro" options available out-there. I guess you can always complain though about Apple eventually bundling the MM with iMacs and G5's. But what you don't like about the MM doesn't really have to do with it, since as I assume, you wouldn't be satisfied by a mouse that has less buttons than you want/need.
Posted by: Other_Matt at August 23, 2005 10:44 PM
And the problem with dropping the single button wired mouse and replacing it with a mouse whose default configuration is to act like the old mouse, and, that if you don't like, you can still do what you've always done in the past, buy your own bloody mouse.... Is what exactly?
Posted by: Hao at August 24, 2005 01:23 AM
Paul:
Unless you're an HCI/ergonomics expert, let's stay away from statements like "most people reflexively lift their index finger when they right click".
Zaxxon:
I also find arguments that people who don't follow the same click behaviors can learn to use the Mighty Mouse after a month or two appalling. Try getting America to switch to metric or better yet, people who use double-row size enter keys to switch to single-row enter key keyboards and vice-versa.
There are various interfaces where having to lift the other fingers to use one is necessary come to mind. (eg. stringed instruments) However, there are also interfaces where the opposite is true. (eg. keyboards, gamepads, etc.) I believe that mousing behavior should follow that of more common multi-button interfaces (like keyboards and gamepads), but I do follow your argument that people who are used to the one-button mouse left-click using all their fingers. However, I think there are enough people who right-click like I do (not lifting the index finger) that Apple should at least include an option to change the behavior or use two touch sensitivities to differentiate between resting on the surface when another finger clicks, and when both fingers are actively clicking.
I do like mice with a lot of buttons. (thinking of upgrading my Logitech mx510 to the G5 when it comes out.) However, if Apple had a bluetooth MM that behaved the way I wanted it to behave, I would buy it in a heartbeat to use with my powerbook, as having a bluetooth mouse (with multiple buttons) that uses standard batteries and has an on-off switch is considerably better than one that has a proprietary dock and/or doesn't have an on-off switch.
Other Matt:
I'm not sure about this, but I think the price is a little different between the mouse and keyboard sets. As an example, for the Mac Mini, the MM + keyboard is a $78 option, while wireless is $99. On the iMac G5, upgrading from the old mouse and keyboard set to wireless is $60 extra. Of course, it won't make much difference to people who hate the MM anyway, since they probably don't want the wired keyboard set for Mac Mini (so they'll go with the no keyboard option) and Apple has been consistent in not changing the base prices of their hardware offerings even when changing components (via revisions). It would be strange for them to increase prices $50 across the line for having replaced the default mouse and keyboard set with the MM and keyboard set, so ultimately there isn't a cost factor involved. Actually, it would seem to me that they wouldn't be able to justify a $60 upgrade to the wireless set afterwards, so that upgrade should become cheaper after MM becomes standard across the board. Umm, yeah, I guess swapping out the old mouse for the MM is actually good thing?
Posted by: a_a at August 24, 2005 02:07 AM
seriously.
Just because YOU don't leave your index finger on the left click doesn't mean OTHERS do the same.
to MANY ppl [a very sizable amount] the right-click "bug" bothers them. Just because YOU think of it as a "feature" doesn't mean it is to others.
Geez.
Posted by: Raphael at August 24, 2005 02:57 PM
Guys, I reverted back to my Logitech 5 time during the first 2 hours I had the mighty mouse a friend had given me for trial. If it had been mine, I might have thrown it out of the windows as many time, but it wan't mine fortunatly.
I had been longing for such a scroll ball for so long that I kept trying it again. Actually, I got addict to this scroll ball at once. But as I have always rested all my fingers on the mouse, the unpredictable behaviour of the MM was driving me nut!
You see, when you are used to rest your fingers on the mouse, it is impossible to realise that a mouse expects you to actually LIFT your finger in order to click. I was so angered you cannot imagine.
Now, fortunatly, others like you gave the explanation of this strange phenomenon. What a relief! I could then learn that I have to lift my finger to obtain a right click. Yes, I have to tell myself "lift the left finger".
Now, after two weeks, I get about 4 good right-click out of 5, less if I'm tired. I accept it only because of the benefits the scroll ball bring to me.
So for me and probably lots of other, yes, it's a bug.
Posted by: Zaxxon at August 26, 2005 12:39 AM
I never said or implied that because I loved the Mighty Mouse that others would. The MM is exactly what I want, and I posted my reasons for it and why other might love it too.
Apple is the only company that could have built a multi-button mouse that works like that so I'm happy they did it. There are thousands of competing mice, and I don't see Apple forbidding people to buy one. If you really want a trackball, then just wait a few months and you'll see third parties implementing trackballs in their mice, with two distinct top buttons.
Remember, it's a mouse, not an OS.
Where is the BT Mighty Mouse? And when will they fix it so I can leave my index finger on the left side down and still right click?