RM: Of patents and two-finger-scrolling (updated)
Sven writes:
Hey Drunk,
As you were interested in the new trackpad feature by Apple, you might also be interested in this:
Two-Finger-Scrolling with pre-2005 PowerBooks and iBooks
Looks like some of the Al and i-Books already have the better hardware built in. So what's the meaning of all that 'patent' vs. 'open source' stuff here? Do they mean anything?
Basically, this is a (clever!) hack where the author (Daniel Becker) took the driver, which is included with Darwin, and modified it to allow two-finger scrolling on the models that support it. You just have to enter a few terminal commands to unload the older driver and reload the hacked version.
There is a bit of a difference here between what the guy is doing with hacked drivers, and what the new apple powerbooks are doing. From what I've been told, there is new hardware in the new PowerBooks, it looks as though Apple has moved to new USB-based hardware. Yes, that can be confusing, but remember these things are connecting internally and not externally.
These new 'features' are basically hardware based on the new PowerBooks, and rely on the 'enhanced' firmware in the newer models to tell the OS what's going on.
In the case of SideTrack, it's more the opposite. The trackpad is capable of registering all of the information in a general sense, but you need to put it into a more basic mode and take care of it via software. The 'sensitivity' is all there, at least in newer PowerBook and iBook models; the difference is in whether the driver is taking care of the extra functionality or the trackpad firmware is.
In the case of the linked hack, Daniel was kind enough to pass on:
Unlike SideTrack, I'm not putting the trackpad into absolute mode. On W-Enhanced trackpads, two fingers touching the pad are simply reported by means of a virtual button. This information is actually used in the original Darwin driver to explicitely ignore two-finger contact in the same way it filters palm contact on the edges of the pad etc. (i.e. counted as accidental input).
It shouldn't come as too large of a surprise that the hardware was fairly capable of this, you can do this on most PC laptops already, if the specifics are often different. IE, some laptops do have a separate little trackpad for scrolling, but many allow you to do most of what SideTrack was already offering via their drivers.
Now, I think most people with half a brain find this 'feature' getting top billing on the bumped PowerBooks to be a bit of a stretch, but that's the way it goes. I've gotten mail from both sides, and it's not something I really want to get in the middle of.
However, one thing you might wonder is whether it's some kind of major thing that there actually is a new USB-based trackpad... or if it's a big deal that it's being handled via the firmware instead of the driver. Not really, at least not if you're concerned about CPU cycles.
To jump back to the original question:
So what's the meaning of all that 'patent' vs. 'open source' stuff here? Do they mean anything?
This part of the question is pretty interesting, because 99.999%+ of the people on the planet aren't qualified to answer it. I'm certainly not, as I'm not a patent attorney or a lawyer, but the issue is one we as users will have to deal with more and more.
The crux of the issue is something that the SideTrack guys pointed out: Apple has a little blurb saying they have a patent pending on the two-fingers scrolling thing. Personally, I think it's a pretty damn stupid patent, as all the functionality is there on other platforms and more, but as I mentioned before, I thought Amazon's one-click patent crap was just as stupid, but Apple licensed it.
Basically, at this point when it comes to patent and intellectual property, rules of common sense and such don't apply, but 'might makes right' does. To go back to the original question, the fact that someone was able to quickly modify an older, open sourced driver Apple released doesn't mean a whole lot. This isn't a patent covering implementation, it's covering the basic idea of using two fingers to scroll.
Which goes back to the 'might makes right' aspect: I have no doubt this functionality would be trivial to implement, it's been shown it has, but it doesn't really matter because no one in their right mind wants a big corporation to hammer down on them with a patent infringement lawsuit, especially an individual.
That's pretty much the meaning of the 'patent' versus 'open source' argument. In this case, Apple has made sure the code to do it is in the trackpad itself, rather than the Darwin drivers, and while it would be trivial to implement via a driver anyone trying to sell it or possibly even just making it available for download could be in for a world of hurt.
I'm trying to keep an open mind about it, and someone with a very persuasive argument on why the world needs patents like this to exist could sway me.
Unfortunately, the argument of "How stupid would it be if a car maker had patented two-handed steering wheels, or a round wheel itself, or a device to protect your feet from the ground?" has had the most sway on my brain.
Posted by drunkenbatmanFebruary 07, 2005, at 11:11 PM
Comments (20)
Posted by: MM at February 8, 2005 01:03 AM
Now, I think most people with half a brain find this 'feature' getting top billing on the bumped PowerBooks to be a bit of a stretch, but that's the way it goes
Why is it such a big deal with bloggers? They may have hyped that one feature a bit, but I will find it very useful and look forward to it. As speed bumps go, this was a nice revision.
Posted by: vastheman at February 8, 2005 01:20 AM
I've worked as a researcher. I'm all for implementation patenets. Without them, there's no incentive to do research. You want to get some reward for your hard work.
But this two-finger scrolling patent is the kind of patent I absolutely hate. You shouldn't be able to slap a patent on an idea. It lets you get a patent and earn money without doing any work at all.
If Apple had come up with a clever implementation of two-finger scrolling, I would be happy for them to patent it. But that isn't what they've done. They've just put a patent on the concept of using two fingers.
Oh, and BTW, I tried the hacked driver. It needs a bit of work before it's truly useful. The document jumps around a lot. They need to reject sudden motion around the time the second finger is placed down.
Posted by: Daniel Becker at February 8, 2005 04:01 AM
Actually, unlike SideTrack, I'm not putting the trackpad into absolute mode. On W-Enhanced trackpads, two fingers touching the pad are simply reported by means of a virtual button. This information is actually used in the original Darwin driver to explicitely ignore two-finger contact in the same way it filters palm contact on the edges of the pad etc. (i.e. counted as accidental input).
Posted by: Ima g at February 8, 2005 04:56 AM
Let me get this fucking straight.
A small tweak to the driver of older TrackPads enables two fingered scrolling, but Apple is patenting it and not updating the drivers or allowing anyone else. YOU have to buy a whole new model to get this one feature when it already exists on older books?!?!?!?
BLOODY HELL APPLE?!?!?!?
Posted by: Jon H at February 8, 2005 12:04 PM
"This isn't a patent covering implimentation, it's covering the basic idea of using two fingers to scroll."
I wonder if the patent is on the gestures where you move your fingers in a circular motion. Or something fine-grained and specific like that.
It's hard to tell what they're trying to patent without seeing the patent application.
Also, "patent pending" doesn't necessarily mean they'll get the patent.
So it's a bit premature to be getting one's panties in a bunch.
Posted by: Sebhelyesfarku at February 8, 2005 01:33 PM
I have a patent pending on showing the middle finger to Steve Jobs and his little brainwashed Maczealots.
Posted by: Nick at February 8, 2005 02:37 PM
DB - you should patent spelling implementation as implimentation, I know this isn't the first time I've seen you do it ;)
Posted by: Penne at February 8, 2005 03:23 PM
I wonder if the patent is on the gestures where you move your fingers in a circular motion. Or something fine-grained and specific like that.
You think that is fine grained and specific? Could you BE any more of a Mac zealot? Stop sucking Apple's dick, you just look stupid spending your life apologizing for a corporation.
Posted by: Pjen at February 8, 2005 04:28 PM
Installed the hack and it works for me. Thanks! That poor guy's counter on his website said 25 when you first linked to it, so more are finding out about it.
Pjen
Posted by: anonymous at February 8, 2005 04:55 PM
"drunkenbatman", I've come and looked at your "rants" from when they are linked and used to not pay them much mind. They are often funny in their ignorance and I wrote you off as a Mac bash.
I don't think so anymore.
You may think you are providing another point of view, but you are a cancer to the Mac community. Everything you write is damaging towards Apple, and they would do right to shut you down like they would any company making bad claim after bad claim. You are a damaging force in the community and I look forward to seeing you get what is coming to you.
Posted by: Jon H at February 8, 2005 04:56 PM
Penne writes: "Stop sucking Apple's dick, you just look stupid spending your life apologizing for a corporation."
Get off the computer, you lazy slacker, and get back to the collective farm. You haven't harvested your required amount of barley and cabbage! You're 50 bushels short for the month, already!
Sheesh. You're a disgrace to your comrades. Your toilet paper allotment for this quarter should be cut in half!
Posted by: drunkenbatman at February 8, 2005 05:12 PM
Penne and John H: Be cool.
No reason to go where you both are going. I'm the only one allowed to be bashed like that here. :)
Posted by: superfunkomatic at February 8, 2005 07:43 PM
it never fails, you write interesting op/ed type pieces, as do other sites and the comments always detiorate into "i'm pro-mac you're ruing the community", you are a "mac zealot". what the hell? are the people making those comments in grade 3?
my red crayon is a better red colour than your red crayon. wankers.
Posted by: Erik Hollensbe at February 9, 2005 12:19 AM
As I type this on a Mac, between chats with my wife who's using a Windows machine to play a game written by a former MS big-wig, which will go through my FreeBSD NAT..
I can honestly say that DB's perspective is refreshing - feudalism is an old, dated concept and it's reintroduction into computing either speaks of great wisdom of childish pedantry...
I'm pretty sure it's the latter.
Either you're a zealot, or you're a zealot playing level-headed... Of course, if I had my choice between the two, the latter is much less annoying and I'm strong-willed enough to make my own educated decisions.
And frankly, since I don't own Apple stock, I could give a shit if they get yelled at for doing stupid things.
Posted by: Greg at February 9, 2005 09:40 PM
Can we give the children their "binky", put them to bed, and let the adults carry on something resembling a conversation?! Please, if you want to participate in name calling, go play Halo 2 or find a forum somewhere.
Posted by: Cap'n Hector at February 9, 2005 11:01 PM
Wow, what happened to the normal crowd here? Did everyone miss the message from DB to "endeavor to appear sane"?
Posted by: jonathan at February 11, 2005 02:39 AM
There is prior art on this issue : http://www.fingerworks.com/
I've had one of these for years now.
Posted by: Jon H at February 11, 2005 09:08 PM
"There is prior art on this issue : http://www.fingerworks.com/
I've had one of these for years now."
Er, how can you say that when without knowing what the patent covers?
Posted by: mutt at February 22, 2005 01:04 PM
What is Apple going to do - come round to my place and take off a finger with pruning shears? As long as they leave me the middle one so I can flip them off....
I used Sidetrack since it appeared but this Scroll2 is much closer to 'natural' for me. And the right-click emulation works well without all the false clicks i used to get from the Apple and Sidetrack drivers.
Trying to equate this with the Amazon patent is stupid. Everyone else may have the =capability= but no one else was =doing= 2 finger scrolling. Apple =innovated= it so why should they not benefit from it?