Global Thermonuclear Lawsuits
I've been following Apple's lawsuit against ThinkSecret with interest. As Donna Wentworth so eloquently states in 'EFF to Apple: Back Off', there are differences between each case, both between the kids being sued in the ThinkSecret case, and the kids being sued for leaking a Tiger build onto the internet, but it's interesting to note how they all came about at around the same time. As someone once said, it might be "too coincidental to be a coincidence."
If you didn't catch it, the author of ThinkSecret, Nicholas Ciarelli, gave an interview to his school newspaper (Harvard), and has since been in an article requesting funds to help get representation. I.E., legal aid, which will probably mean donations. It also came out that he started the site when he was 13, is now 19, and lived with his parents until last fall.
Apple is also suing someone for allegedly leaking some details of Asteroid, a firewire break-out box, whose identity or ages aren't known. But when we wrap in Nick's age we're left we defendants who are: 19, 21, 22, and 22. Three are at colleges in some form, one lives at home. And you've met Sunny (Desicanuk).
The Electronic Frontier Foundation is representing the two other sites mentioned in the ThinkSecret case (PowerPage and AppleInsider), as they are not actually being sued, but instead are being subpoenaed for their sources in another case where they are suing another twenty 'John Does', as they state in their release:
"Bloggers break the news, just like journalists do. They must be able to promise confidentiality in order to maintain the free flow of information," said EFF Staff Attorney Kurt Opsahl. "Without legal protection, informants will refuse to talk to reporters, diminishing the power of the open press that is the cornerstone of a free society."
"I am very disappointed by Apple's behavior and its new policy of issuing legal threats to its best customers," added Jason O'Grady, publisher of PowerPage. "Is corporate paranoia really more important than the First Amendment?"
The EFF thinks this is a first amendment issue, which I'm inclined to agree with. It comes down to whether or not websites (and perhaps blogs) can be considered to be press at this point and in the future, as Donna Wentworth eloquently states in her Copyfight article. That's the sort of thing the EFF does, and part of their charter. Unfortunately, there are things the EFF doesn't do, which is why they're trying to find the author of ThinkSecret counsel but aren't representing him.
To be honest, I don't fully, or even slightly, understand the grounds for Apple's lawsuit against ThinkSecret. Oh, I can understand why Apple may not want them to do what they do, that's a given. I can even understand how it can harm them, but that doesn't mean it's not OK. Some would say it doesn't really matter if it's OK, because ThinkSecret will have their day in court, like the defendants in the Tiger lawsuits, and it'll be decided there.
The problem here is that these are civil cases, and not criminal. Most of our experiences with criminal cases come from TV, and we see those types of things all the time on CSI or Law & Order. I.E., in a criminal case, if you can't afford a lawyer, one is provided to you to act in your defense. Not so in a civil case where, if you're a normal human, most of your experience with those comes from TV shows which are the equivalent of Small Claims Court.
There is also the idea in a criminal suit that involves the burden of proof, where the court has to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that you are indeed guilty. In a civil lawsuit, the plaintiff just has to show by a 'preponderance of evidence' that you are probably guilty. This is why O.J. Simpson was acquitted of murder in his criminal trial, yet found guilty of it in the civil lawsuit. Basically it's much, much easier to get convicted via a civil suit.
Let's pretend for a moment that you've been served papers, letting you know that you're being sued for X in the state of California for, say, something intellectual property laws. A civil case in a Federal court, with a jury who will hear from both sides, decide on the merits, and then damages. Let's also pretend you live several thousand miles away from that state. There are deadlines in the documents for doing things, like responses, and initial hearings, that sort of thing.
You call the corporation to try to figure out if there has been a misunderstanding, or something you can do, but they really aren't interested in speaking to you. Luckily, your family has a friend who is a lawyer, because they're always good to have around, so you call him up.
The bad news is that the suit is in California, which means your lawyer tells you he has to be licensed to practice law in California, so he can't really help you. The other bad news is that it involves intellectual property law, and law at this point is like medicine: there are specialized fields for a reason. There's just too much to know and take into consideration between states, let alone actual specialized fields.
You, of course, don't have the resources to go to a large law firm in your area that might have chapters and contacts in California. So what you're really looking for is:
- A lawyer in, or licensed to practice law in the state of California
- Conversant with computers, and the issues surrounding them, like P2P, which is rarer than you might think
- Is an expert in intellectual property matters, which is a very specialized field, which doesn't automatically make them conversant with issues like P2P
- Willing to work for nothing as well, you have next to nothing.
One of the first things you find out is that most of the people in this field are spoken for by the corporations -- there's a lot of money here, and it's generally a high-level game. The second thing you find out is that those who aren't specifically on a corporate retainer are still spoken for, simply because of how specialized and in the demand the field is. Their billable rates are astronomical, and it's not the kind of thing you can get a line of credit on. No, they want a retainer up front.
You can start selling all your possessions, including your computer and furniture, and still not have enough for them to be willing to consider taking you on, let alone look at your case. This option, for the most part, is pretty much blocked to you. Of course you're enterprising desperate, so you try anyways, or at least to get some advice on how to proceed, and are pretty much told the above. Their general advice is to throw yourself at the corporation's mercy.
Part of you starts thinking, maybe a lawyer will be willing to take it on for the media attention alone, to make a name for themselves. It doesn't really work out that way, as we saw with the RIAA blanket lawsuits and other such things. This is primarily a corporate arena, not a personal one, and directly going against the corporations isn't really in their best interests. Alternately, you're already in such high demand, and raking in so much cash, that it's not as though you really need any more work. There's always some patent lawsuit somewhere.
In fact, those blanket RIAA lawsuits pretty much stopped being lawsuits at all -- it was much easier to just send them a letter asking for $5,000. If they said they didn't have it, they'd ask for $3,000. They knew that 99% of those individuals being sued couldn't come close to affording any sort of trial, and while they may have to borrow from their family and friends to pay the lawsuit, it was much preferable... whether they were guilty or not.
After what you're hearing, throwing yourself at the corporation's mercy is sounding pretty good, so you go back to the company, basically to be told they have no interest in any sort of settlement whatsoever. This is the real deal, and they're planning to nail you to the wall. You still have little idea of the ramifications of all of this.
You're googling, but finding contradictory information... Some say it'll end up on your permanent record because it's federal, which means the end of advanced schooling. Others say it probably won't. Some say if they get a huge judgment, it'll follow you forever... others say you can declare bankruptcy and basically just have your credit ruined. Do you have to go to California? What happens if you don't do anything?
Of course this still isn't helping, as those papers have to be answered, and things have to be done. Someone gives you the idea of going to your college's small law department, and asking for help. After all, there might be grad students, or others, that a professor thinks could use the experience. Some Bar associations and law schools even have clinics to help people with things like this, like say, eviction notices and other such things.
You're politely informed that they empathize with your situation, but unfortunately all the things you need in a lawyer for your case, which we went into above, basically tie their hands. But again, you're enterprising, so why not try the same things, but in California? Surely there are law schools in the area of California that do the same thing. All you'll be out is some googling and long distance charges. You make some calls, get some contacts, and then make more calls.
Unfortunately, the same problems start to rear their heads, but this time in reverse. Those things do sort of exist if you're willing to track them down, but they're generally there to take care of residents of California, not someone thousands of miles away. And even if you were local, they only have so many resources and so much time, so much funding, and this is way over the heads of what they'd ever normally deal with.
What do you do?
Comments (25)
Posted by: V Rashmir at January 16, 2005 02:36 AM
Wow. Too depressing to read before bedtime. Have you read the Dan Gillmor article on Apple's [mis]behavior? It's called "Arrogance at Apple".
[b]This is disturbing on many grounds. Apple claims (see the end of the story) that it's not trying to suppress free speech. Bull. That's precisely what the company is doing here, well beyond keeping internal secrets.
This reeks of corporate misbehavior. I'm not a lawyer, but it seems to me that Apple's only legitimate legal beef is with its employees or contractors who are leaking the information to Think Secret and other rumor sites.[/b]
It's worth a read. I don't think Apple has a leg to stand on with trade secret crap. Aren't those processes and ideas you keep secret instead of patenting. That means you get to keep how you do something secret but if it gets out you are SOL and it is now public domain information.
You can go after the person who told the secret and maybe someone who "induced" someone to give the secret. If you are a rival company who pays an employee to hand over some secret process, OK! If you are a website posting rumors with a contact form you are SOL! Is that not the point of calling them trade secrets in the first place?
What makes this evil is these things are not really trade secrets that I can tell because they were going to tell the world anyway! You were not going to keep them secret someone else just told them first.
Apple is acting the bully, using their large legal team to go after small fries and it is going to backfire hard. I am fanatic about my Powerbooks and they have already burned through so much goodwill with me it is not even funny! How much will it take to do permanent harm to their brand image?
GRRRRRRRRRR
Posted by: OzMac at January 16, 2005 02:56 AM
It is not just Apple, and your article goes back and forth tween focusing on Apple (and?) some story you are working in. Maybe your story relates somehow, but Apple is not the only one doing this stuff so is it fair to single them out. Yeah it sucks but remember Sony is suing kottke.org for posting a tiny clip of the man who lost on jeopardy. This was in December... http://www.kottke.org/04/12/sony-ken-jennings-and-me
Yeah this can make me look at my iBook a little different. It is not just an iBook it is what it stands for and who wants to think of this while using it but those are unrealistic expectations. I will forget about it though as will you because this is just what companies do. We might want Apple to be a different sort of corporation... but they are not. It does not really matter if we like it. What are you going to do buy a Dell and run Windows?
Never mind. Fuck 'em both. Litigious bullies.
Posted by: mlab @ Penn at January 16, 2005 05:35 AM
COME ON!
The people doing this stuff (people who uploaded a copy of 10.4 and TS) knew exactly what they were doing and now have to pay the penalty. Apple needs to know who is giving away its secrets and cannot do that unless TS or the other sites give them their sources. These people have all directly harmed Apple and getting harmed back is bound to happen. Live by the sword die by the sword.
Apple can't afford to have it any other way. Dell and others have nice maps telling their customers what they will ship. Apple has less share and needs the hype it builds around its product to get the worlds attention to them. Having it leak out or letting competitors know what Apple is up to directly harms them. Apple has every right to stop that.
Posted by: Mike at January 16, 2005 11:22 AM
mlab @ Penn: Your statments are BS. You're telling me you have never downloaded an illegal song? You've never downloaded a cracked copy of software? You've never read TS, AI, MacRumors, or anything of the sort?
You see, the apple products would be almost nothing without these sites. Its the sepculation that drives the hype involved. Most companies would kill for sites like these. It gets people guessing, gets people to go the the expos, see the products, then buy them because they ahve beend rooling over them for the past few months reading about it.
@Drunken: I never thought of the way these things were happening like that. It kind of puts it into a real world persepective for me, and its really quite scary. I'm 15 and trying to imagine myself in a spot like these guys are in is just to much to think about. It's just very scary.
I'm hoping for the best with these guys, I don't think they did anything wrong. Even Desicanuk who uploaded the Tiger release didnt mean to do a lot of harm, we all make mistakes, some are just bigger than others.
Thanks for the great read.
-Mike
Posted by: Joe I. at January 16, 2005 02:48 PM
My thoughts are if there is something illegal here they better do the time. People have no right to know what a private business is doing. They have a right to keep trade secrets and proprietary info theirs. It is theft and then fencing that information. Plain and simple.
If you report on a public (government entity) fine but the public has no right to private information, either my personal info or Apple's PERIOD!!
Posted by: Zoran at January 16, 2005 08:51 PM
Ever heard of an NDA (Non Disclosure Agreement)?
Posted by: nessence at January 16, 2005 10:23 PM
Mike: "we all make mistakes, some are just bigger than others."
This is true. However, the Internet and legal system make things a little different. A 'mistake' is a mistake no matter how small or large. Some mistakes break laws. With the Internet however, you can make a 'bigger' mistake which is amplified thousands of times over due from the limitless nature of the Internet.
Really, this is about education. You can't drink till your 21 - the governments feel we aren't responsible enough until that age. Driving is restricted. We have sex education classes in school. Are there 'Copyright and Intellectual Property Rights Education' classes? As scary as that is, it's not happening - yet. Maybe it would be but nobody even knows what IS right or wrong now.
We will just have to see how all this unfolds.
Posted by: Mike at January 16, 2005 11:10 PM
nessence: Before I start, I am honored that you replied to my post. MacTKA is a great community.
Education is the start, but not the end. With education comes questions. Unfortunatly copyright and intellectual property rights is a very fuzzy subject. This is where the problem arises, it's a fuzzy subject and there is low education on it, and limited places you can go to learn about it. This is a visious cycle.
The fact that our legal system is set up the way you mentioned isnt correct either. Unfortunatly I no longer have the link to the local news station showing that someone who sells dope can receive more jail time than someone who rapes an 11 year old. How so? Becuase the alledged person selling dope was accused of 5 different counts but only caught once. How is it fair that a pedifile can walk the streets only to attack again, but someone who sells dope, something that can be changed, may have to spend the rest of his life behind bars?
While you may say that the example posted above is an example of a criminal case, it is the same as in a civil case im my opinon. The fact is some mistakes arent as big as others are, the legal system needs to realize this. Someone who is being sued for running over 5 people while driving drunk and someone who releases speculation of an upcomming Apple product, should not be weighed the same.
I believe that in the case of dePlume we are looking at a lawsuit that has to be thrown out. Why? If he can proove that people came to him willingly with information, they willingly broke their NDA's to give him this information, then he has the right to do what he likes with it under our First Ammendment doesnt he?
In the case against Desicanuk, he did do wrong. I will admit that as he did in his interview at this very site. The thing that gets me with Desicanuk is that he commited a crime unknowingly to himself. I'm not saying that it makes what he did right, it just makes it a tragic story.
So to sum it all up, I really dont think that dePlume did anything wrong, nothing that is over the boundries of the First Ammendment. Unfortunatly Desicanuk did do wrong, he knows that and we know that, but it still makes me have pitty for him. I can understand that he needs to be punished, but I cant say that I agree with it becase then I would be a hypocrite, as I am sure that a lot of people who have said he gets what he deserves are.
If you have ever downloaded anything illegaly, from a song, to a $5000 software suite, you are just as guilty as Desicanuk is, the difference is you havent gotten caught, so before you say "He gets what he desereves" think about that for a second. Put yourself in his shoes. I support Desicanuk in his fight against Apple Computer, Inc. I am a strong supporter of Apple, ask anyone at kirupaForum.com, but this time i have to stand by a commrade instead of one of my favorite companies. Plain and simple.
-Mike
P.S. I hope this made sense and I didnt just ramble on...
Posted by: Levi Polk at January 16, 2005 11:36 PM
I believe that in the case of dePlume we are looking at a lawsuit that has to be thrown out. Why? If he can proove that people came to him willingly with information, they willingly broke their NDA's to give him this information, then he has the right to do what he likes with it under our First Ammendment doesnt he?
Mike --- Reading this after reading the article I have to wonder if it matters if the merits of the case matter? People cannot afford to participate in these types of trials "whether they are guilty or not". Apple must know this. When is the last time they sued another corporation?
This whole situation is unfortunate for both sides. This week I should be fantasizing about when I can afford the Mac Mini and not these lawsuits. I am wondering, could Apple sue Drunken Blog for his articles and the lawsuit interview?
Posted by: Javier at January 17, 2005 01:35 AM
If someone notified MacSecret about 9/11 two weeks in advance, and the government wanted MacSecret to reveal the source; then MacSecret could hide behind the Bill of Rights. The Bill of Rights was written to protect the Press from the government. I wonder who would advertise or read MacSecret after something like that.
This case isn't about 9/11, and the government isn't involved. Does the Bill of Rights protect MacSecret in a civil suit? I wonder if the the Supreme Court would even consider the the iPod Shuffle newsworthy.
Apple isn't MicroSoft. They aren't big enough to intimidate the advertisers on MacSecret. People that read Enderle and Thurrott are really hard up for news. They will read anything Mac, so MacSecret will continue to have readers.
There is a group in America even more powerful than the government. The day someone uses MacSecret to manipulate the stock market will be the beginning of its end.
Posted by: Jason Deralaeu at January 17, 2005 09:04 AM
Mike: "Unfortunatly copyright and intellectual property rights is a very fuzzy subject."
I agree. I don't claim to understand copyright and IP laws. However, I do understand that it is unlawful to distribute copyrighted works. I think that's a pretty well-known fact by now. I mean, if the Napster case, the RIAA cases, and the MPAA cases haven't clued you in that it's illegal to distribute copyrighted works without permission, you seriously need a check-up from the neck-up.
I still haven't figured out quite where I stand on the Think Secret case. I like the site and I do frequent it for the latest scoop. So while on the one hand I do like what TS is doing, I can't agree completely with what they do for much the same reason of which John Gruber gave an example:
"When Steve Jobs announced the $249 price [of the iPod mini] during the keynote, the audience’s disappointment was palpable."
I remember being disappointed at the price, too. Now, would that have been the case if TS weren't posting _extremely_ accurate "conjecture" about Apple products? Somehow, I doubt it. Matter of fact, I think most peoples' complaints at the time were over the price point and how the iPod mini would cannibalize the lower-end iPods.
These things (IP theft, spreading insider information) hurt Apple. If Apple then decides to fight back, I feel that they have more than a leg to stand on (two legs?). As far as feeling sympathy for these folks, I have none. Have I downloaded a stolen song or two in my time? Sure, but not since iTMS came out. Not since it became an obviously illegal act for which people are being punished.
Being young or lacking common sense doesn't make your wrong a right.
Posted by: Bitboy at January 17, 2005 10:52 AM
Apple has a very weak case in all of these suits. The best Apple can do is hope to settle these suits out of court.
I agree IP is the issue. If Apple argues on IP grounds. then they'll have to show the IP is theirs and theirs alone. That they haven't copied it (from someone) and that it wasn't created by someone else. IP is like a patent that isn't a patent.
Certainly, the OS X kernal isn't their IP. Many elements of the GUI aren't original. Before OS X, Linux had a GUI (no matter how bad) running on top of a Unix based OS. (Do KDE and Gnome ring a bell?) While I wouldn't put them in the same class as OS X, who can say who's IP OS X is.
And all of this coming from a company founded by someone who stole and sold long distance telephone service to make ends meet.
Let's put Woz on the stand.
Posted by: Jason Deralaeu at January 17, 2005 01:01 PM
Bitboy: "Apple has a very weak case in all of these suits. The best Apple can do is hope to settle these suits out of court."
While the ThinkSecret case might be a harder fight, in the case of the individuals who illegally distributed Tiger, Apple has an extremely strong case. Not only is it obvious that Apple IP was stolen (regardless of your attempts to claim that because Darwin is open, all of Mac OS X is), but the individuals in question broke an NDA. They agreed to a contract and then didn't follow through with their side of the agreement. That case is cut and dry; those distributing the software are in the wrong and are getting what they deserve.
If anything, I think it's actually in the favor of the defendants if these cases are settled out of court. If they go to court, the defendants (who apparently all lack common sense, live with their mothers, and are dirt poor) will incur huge legal fees. If Apple is feeling gracious, perhaps they will settle with the individuals. Or, Apple might nail them to the wall as an example.
Bitboy: "IP is like a patent that isn't a patent."
Um, no. IP is a concept. (Hmm... I always thought "Intellectual Property" is pretty self explanatory.) The concept that an idea or other product of your intellect can be owned. Some ideas take the form of products, so there is a process by which you can register your particular design or process with a governing body. This is called a "patent". Other ideas take the form of written words, performances, etc. You wrote that essay all by yourself and now you have a "copyright" to protect it. Either way, your statement is patently false. ;)
Posted by: Mike at January 17, 2005 06:00 PM
Jason:
but the individuals in question broke an NDA
TS broke no NDA's if he never signed anything. His sources however did. My question that has still been unanswered is how is dePlume at fault for anything? That would be the same as my mom signing an NDA about dinner tongiht, then telling me that my dad was going to make pizza tonight. I go on to blog about how my dad is going to make pizza, and then my dad sues me. (This never happend btw).
The lawsuit presented by my dad to me would be worthless because I was going on what my mom told me. I never had signed an NDA saying i wouldnt disclose what we were having for dinner.
I'm assuming this is the case with TS and dePlume too. He got a tip saying the new products, ranges, etc. then posted them. Apple never came to him asking him to sign NDA's stating that he wouldnt post the information that he learned.
I could be wrong about the above though.
I dont think that Desicanuk broke any NDA's either, unless there are some written into the ADP terms (which I havent seen) in which case he did. What he did do however is break the copyright laws, therefore his case is unfortunatly legit (from what I can see).
-Mike
Posted by: Junebug at January 17, 2005 07:29 PM
you play with fire you get burned...hahahah i better watch my ass now!
Posted by: De Badd Ass at January 18, 2005 01:40 AM
This is a simple case (or maybe not). We have a law designed to protect whistleblowers being turned around to protect criminals.
I don't think anyone can argue that Think Secret revealed any illegal, immoral, or unethical wrongdoings commited by Apple in this particular incident. Mr. dePlume is not protecting Karen Silkwood or Deep Throat.
The courts of already decided that companies like Comcast and Verizon must provide the names of lawbreaking customers. Mr. dePlume wants to hide behind the exemptions granted to the Press.
The first problem is that not everyone agrees that the Press should be able to protect its sources. There are those that would like to expose whistleblowers to retaliation. What better way to change the law than to demonstrate cases of abuse?
The second problem is that some of the so-called Press wants to extend that protection to the max. Nick dePlume asks on his website, "Got Dirt?" How many of you agree that the secrets he revealed about the "flash iPod" constitute dirt?
Isn't it sad that iPod secrets are more newsworthy than electronic voting irregularities?
Posted by: Alan H at January 18, 2005 03:15 AM
*This is a simple case (or maybe not). We have a law designed to protect whistleblowers being turned around to protect criminals.*
Not going to go into your "criminals" part. But this is a classic case of protecting things you don't like because if you don't sooner or later the things you do like won't be protected. That is what the 1st amendment is all about and why bigots and nazis can say what they want in America.
Corporations do not like the first amendment in general. Remember places like WalMart and other corporations have sued websites for saying negative things because it harmed their business. People thought that was stupid. If it was about Apple OMG SAVE THEM FROM THE EVIL DOERS.
Admittedly I never thought Apple would be the one to set precedent but am glad the EFF has stepped in. If websites do not have the same rights as the press to protect their stories what will it mean in 10 years when that is how we all get our news?
Posted by: Zoran at January 18, 2005 03:49 AM
Rofl
No offence meant drunkenbatman, was not targetting you just my 'Brain Fart' of the day.
I just went through a lot of blog's on this subject and thought to add the relevance of an NDA, I failed by making it a single sentence without explanation. That being Nick knew (that's tough one to prove, maybe) that the people he was getting info from were under NDA's(the info covered by said NDA would not be obtainable by any other means). And following the states laws in which he resides, he is passing on protected and privileged information. I don't see the First Amendment being broken here. In fact it was a poster from another blog that pointed out said article of law, i'm just poorly regurgitating it.
I mean hell...
if I was this kid and did what he did I KNOW I did something I must not have done.
Consequences...
Hope that cleared up my 'Brain Fart'.
Cheers
Zoran
Posted by: Jason Deraleau at January 18, 2005 09:24 AM
Mike: "TS broke no NDA's if he never signed anything."
What are you, a political advisor? You took my quote out of its context completely. I never claimed that those at ThinkSecret signed an NDA. They obviously wouldn't have. Let's take a look at my quote in its original context:
"While the ThinkSecret case might be a harder fight, in the case of the individuals who illegally distributed Tiger, Apple has an extremely strong case. Not only is it obvious that Apple IP was stolen (regardless of your attempts to claim that because Darwin is open, all of Mac OS X is), but the individuals in question broke an NDA."
So... while TS... OOOOHHHHHH, I changed to talking about the people who distributed Tiger and how they violated their NDA! Ohhh... yeah... might wanna read what's actually there instead of letting your mind fill in the blanks. ;)
Posted by: Scott Ellsworth at January 18, 2005 05:06 PM
I cannot agree that Apple is trying to stifle free speech. Last time I checked, they had targeted TS to find out who leaked proprietary information. This would be a logical first step to firing, and likely prosecuting, people who violated an NDA and employment contract.
The information TS leaked was quite clearly detailed and obviously Apple confidential. Speculations on what Apple might introduce do seem to be reasonably protected; hiding the identity of someone who violated an employment contract and revealed trade secrets hardly seems in the same class.
I have proprietary data from my clients, all hidden behind fairly aggressive security. Were I to release it to their competition by way of trade rags, I would not expect to be safe from legal retribution, just because I claimed that the free press should be able to report any damn thing. After all, you can sue for both slander and libel, and win.
What Think Secret did was not whistle blowing, nor keeping a reign on governmental and corporate power. It was revelation of trade secrets plain and simple. If the first amendment is stretched to cover this, then it loses its real power and real purpose. I do not want that - it is too important to sacrifice to poor judgement.
Scott
Posted by: Jon H at January 19, 2005 10:52 PM
Nick Ciarelli isn't just a poor widdle college kid. He was making a buck, running a business. His income depends on him getting access to leaks from Apple. His site isn't a public service.
His case is a case of one business suing a businessman.
Posted by: Jon H at January 19, 2005 11:23 PM
Mike writes: "If you have ever downloaded anything illegaly, from a song, to a $5000 software suite, you are just as guilty as Desicanuk is"
Um, actually, downloading the software wasn't really the problem for him, it was giving it away to others.
As I understand it, he was able to download Tiger from Apple due to a loophole that their ADC software probably should have prevented. (He picked up a free ADC account that did not include access to seeds. Someone who had access to seeds transferred a 'seed download privilege' (to coin a phrase) to him in ADCs software download system. Similarly, if you get a hardware discount, you can transfer that to another ADC member, so they can use your discount.)
So far, he'd probably be in the clear. He'd get to play with Tiger, satisfy his curiosity, and be able to lord it over his friends, dropping hints and making vague comments about the wonders he'd seen.
The problem is that, in his immaturity, and perhaps for some kind of self-serving effort to build credibility or brownie points in the online communities he hangs out in, he put it online.
That wouldn't be permissible to anyone, however they obtained the software. Avie Tevanian couldn't just throw Tiger on bittorrent without violating Apple's copyright. He'd need permission from Apple.
I think that's the major issue here: lack of maturity of the people involved.
These kids have more power than they can handle, and don't think things through. They're at the mental level of showing off their new Pokemon cards on the playground.
(In Think Secret's case, there's the additional issue that Nick gets more money if he can show off an especially rare new Pokemon card. For someone who's immature to begin with, that's bound to lead to bad decision-making.)
When a journalist treads the line of releasing sensitive information, he doesn't do it on his own, and he doesn't do it lightly. Chances are, he's conferred with his editors or producers, maybe the legal department, maybe executives, depending on how big of a story it is.
These kids don't take approach it that responsibly.
(Oh, and yes, these kids have power. If putting information on the internet weren't a significant form of power, China wouldn't be so concerned about filtering what its people can see on the web. Things put on the web are mostly trivial in effect, but some things can have overwhelming effects. And you never really know what's going to be trivial, and what's going to be overwhelming.)
Posted by: Paul Freedman at February 22, 2005 11:03 AM
I dunno. I just don't see all the excitement in speculating, guessing, knowing what product Apple won't/might/may/will release. If they do they will and there it is. Why feed their marketing buzz, let alone get thrown in jail over it? I admit I'm no computer ace and just use the Mac at home and at the office--and at the office it doesn't keep up with the PC I have next to it. It freezes up accessing the network, scanner drivers misfire, and Adobe goes schizoid and starts muttering to itself.
Posted by: Paul Freedman at February 22, 2005 11:04 AM
I dunno. I just don't see all the excitement in speculating, guessing, knowing what product Apple won't/might/may/will release. If they do they will and there it is. Why feed their marketing buzz, let alone get thrown in jail over it? I admit I'm no computer ace and just use the Mac at home and at the office--and at the office it doesn't keep up with the PC I have next to it. It freezes up accessing the network, scanner drivers misfire, and Adobe goes schizoid and starts muttering to itself.








Run here to Germany as fast as you can? Move to the Netherlands? That is really scary. Can anyone sue anyone there from anywhere?